Likes a digression, does Trevor Gulliver. One minute, our conversation’s happily trotting along a straight wine path, with Gulliver telling me about the claret and burgundy he sells at St John, the Michelin-starred restaurant he co-founded in London in 1994 with chef Fergus Henderson.

The next, he’s talking about “tanks on the lawn” (a reference to the uncertain times in which we live – I think), then about fake sourdough bread sold in supermarkets (“We call it ‘Fauxdough’ ... I’m congenitally resistant to bullshit”), then back to claret – the traditional, robust, structural kind, of course: “I don’t mind a bit of architecture and a pair of shoulders in a wine.”