Q&A: Peter Baines on what makes a good leader in 2023

He led teams tasked with identifying bodies after the 2002 Bali bombings and the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami. So what can Peter Baines teach us about leadership?

Values: Peter Baines, founder of Hands Across the Water

As a forensic investigations expert, you led international teams tasked with identifying bodies after the 2002 Bali bombings and the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami, and you’ve responded to natural disasters in Saudi Arabia and Japan. How do you keep your head amid such misery? I’ve always seen my job as providing answers to families. The most difficult time I had in Thailand, for example, was dealing with the relatives of those who died – but that was also the most rewarding. You can’t attach yourself to the loss of every victim, because you just couldn’t survive that, but you do need to make sure you don’t lose compassion and empathy. Engaging with the relatives gives you the chance to demonstrate that.

You founded Hands Across the Water to raise funds for the orphaned children of Thailand. Why? I met some kids living in a tent and it just made sense that if I had the capacity to raise money for them I should. We now have homes for 300 kids and have supported 31 through university.

In 2014, your charity raised $250,000 for “Baby Gammy”, the child with Down Syndrome at the centre of a surrogacy scandal. How is he doing now? He’s at school, going well, the family’s all good. We bought him a house [in Thailand], which is held in trust until he’s 21, and the rest of the funds were distributed over a five-year period for medical and living expenses. There was no need for ongoing financial assistance, so we were happy for the relationship to come to an end, although we check in every now and then.

How does your new book on leadership differ from the other leadership manuals filling the bookshelves? I’m sharing practical knowledge and learned experiences. I’ve worked in areas of crisis and disaster, so the stories I share, whether they’re about walking among thousands of dead bodies or sitting with a Buddhist monk, are reflections of what I’ve been a part of, as opposed to me interpreting someone else’s research. My story is just different.

Is there a story that stands out from the devastation of the Boxing Day tsunami? A grandfather who had to climb a tree and make a split-second decision which of his two grandsons to let go of, knowing only one could survive. I heard almost exactly the same story after the tsunami in Japan, from a woman who had to choose between her mother and her daughter. I don’t know that you can ever be at peace with that kind of decision. I used to see the grandfather when I visited Thailand, and he was haunted.

Has Australia become too risk-averse? Whether raising kids, building a business or running a charity, it’s easier to eliminate risk than to have the courage and strength to manage it. Adding levels of governance and compliance creates this fear that if someone gets something wrong, there’ll be a punitive response and it deters innovation. People don’t want to go first because of the risk of getting it wrong. But so often, that’s where the reward is. If you make a mistake as a leader but you’ve acted with integrity and good intent, people will forgive you, but we don’t forgive leaders who have shown a lack of courage.

What makes a good leader in 2023? The best leaders these days are the ones who are asking of the teams they support: How can I help? What we value most is a leader’s ability to demonstrate empathy, compassion and understanding.

Leadership Matters (Wiley, $32.95) by Peter Baines is out now