‘The devil’s waiting on the sidelines’: How Bliss N Eso stay sober, shredded and stable
Getting off alcohol was ‘hectic’, and learning about food has been life-changing: these chart-topping hip-hop artists talk about how they have stayed fit and healthy across their ARIA Award-winning career.
Bliss N Eso is a chart-topping hip-hop group formed in Sydney in 2000, with the trio composed of rappers Bliss and Eso alongside DJ Izm. In a joint interview, the two MCs reflect on their shifting attitudes toward health, fitness, alcohol and longevity across their ARIA Award-winning career, which continues with a 27-date national tour running from May to August.
What have you learned about keeping fit while touring?
Bliss (aka Jonathan Notley, 45): When you’re young, when you start off, it’s all about fun, wild times – but as you get older, you realise how important it is to take care of yourself, especially when touring on the road. Because doing back-to-back shows, things can catch up with you really quickly.
Eso (aka Max Mackinnon, 44): You can’t be doing what we’re doing at our age without taking care of yourself. I’m pretty proud of us to be able to make it this far in such a cutthroat industry, where a lot of other artists and groups fall off and run out of steam. But we’re going strong. It’s important for us all to get our good night’s sleep after shows; it’s the first thing we want, really.
Bliss: We’re doing the LeBron James thing here: it’s all about longevity. And like Macka (aka Eso) said, it’s easy to fall off the wagon, especially in music. How many stories do you hear about bands breaking up, or not making the distance? For a variety of reasons – but health is a big one. It’s incredibly taxing and tolling on the body.
Eso: We would love to have our shows during the day, but it’s always late nights and packing up early in the morning. You’ve really got to have a head on your shoulders to handle all of that.
When did your attitude toward prioritising your health and wellbeing start to change, Eso?
Eso: The big one for me was drinking. I came into the industry already a bit of a drinker – but if you come into the industry with demons, they just fuel and fire it up for you. Before I knew it, it was a little out of control – because when we’re doing three or four shows a week, there’s six cases of beer there, and bottles of vodka. The devil’s waiting there on the sidelines.
To make it a real quick story: we went to Afghanistan to play for the troops (in September 2013). I didn’t want to go over there; the closest thing to war I wanted (to see) was (playing the video game) Call of Duty on my couch. But the boys constantly were just like, “Man, you don’t want to miss out on it.” I was aware that they were dry bases over there, so there wasn’t going to be any drinking. The boys pushed me to do it. We went over there, and it was an amazing experience.
Long story short, that’s where I said, “I’ve got to hit it on the head.” We then did a whole tour of Canada; it was like 10 or 12 days of getting off it (alcohol), which was hectic. It was in and out of hospitals, going straight from hospital onto the stage. But after 15 days, it was all gone. We all met up in Las Vegas, I got married, and we drove off into the sunset on ATVs. (laughs)
Thanks for sharing that, Eso. I love how upfront you are about this subject, which some men can find challenging: being honest about how much they’re drinking, and how it’s affecting their health and their relationships. Does that kind of vulnerability come easily to you both?
Bliss: I mean, we’ve written songs about this. We’ve got a song called Devil On My Shoulder – which encapsulates a bit of what Macka was talking about – and the song Believe (both from 2017 album Off the Grid).
It’s not just physical health; it’s also mental health. We’ve found that the songs that connect and resonate the most with people are when you’re just upfront, forthright and, frankly, vulnerable. Just be truthful about it, because the amount of fans that come up to us (and say), “Man, I’ve been going through the same thing,” or “This hit home,” or whatever – it’s incredible. That’s when you see people in tears when they come and meet you at shows, or they have tattoos of the lyric that means the world to them about bettering themselves. That’s an amazing feeling, and it’s the beauty of what we do as artists: sharing our story through this art form, which then hopefully can resonate with someone else.
Does hearing that sort of response from fans still surprise you?
Eso: That’s the cherry on the top, right there. I mean, you write these rhymes alone in your room, just to yourself, imagining someone listening; it’s an overwhelming feeling to think that someone else is going exactly through what you’re saying. Someone came up to me once, and he didn’t have to say a long speech; he just said, “You say what I think.” And that said it all: if these guys are thinking this stuff and can’t say it, and we’re the guys out there saying it, and they’re relating to it, and then it allows them to get it out – I mean, that’s more than music. That’s magic.
When did you start to think differently about your health, Bliss?
Bliss: There was a point, probably in my early 30s, where I had just been going in the roller coaster of Bliss N Eso and the kind of rock star life for so long. I had let my health slip; I was 20 kilos heavier than I am now. I was eating terribly, partying, drinking – all this stuff. I remember one day looking in the mirror, and I was just really disappointed in myself. I’m like, “Man, I’m better than this. I can better myself, and I don’t have to live this way.”
I started diving into the whole health and fitness world. First I started researching about simple things like macros (aka macronutrients). I actually started on a keto journey (ketogenic diet; high-fat, low-carbs), which was amazing, because that taught me all about … The thing is, I don’t know if it’s changed now, but certainly when we were in school, they didn’t teach you fundamentals about nutrition.
I had no idea what the difference between what a fat, a carb and a protein is, and the balance between them, and what they do in conjunction with each other and separately. I had no idea how the body reacts to it, or how to read nutritional information on food, or understand what it was. That was a huge learning curve for me. From there, I got into it – and as I stayed dedicated with a regime of exercise and eating well, I started to see the difference.
I remember one time, Eso hadn’t seen me in a while. I walked in and I’d dropped 15 or 20 kilos, and he was like, (acts shocked) “Dude!” Those little things reinforce to yourself that you’re on the right track; you might not see it so gradually yourself, but when someone doesn’t see you for a while, they can really notice that black-and-white difference.
Eso, when your friend and bandmate started making these big life changes, what did you think and feel about what was happening?
Eso: It’s amazing, man. Because no one can tell the person to do it; it’s on them. When Jonathan made that change, I was seeing it not only physically, but he was mentally more there. The friendship became stronger, and just for the band in general – we got our guy! It’s one of the best things ever, man. Like I was saying before, this is such a cutthroat industry; for bands to last two years is a miracle. For us to have gotten into this when we were teenagers, and then going off in our own life journeys as well; and still being able to have this unity as a band, and still be healthy, and still being able to create new albums, and go on huge tours? This what we dreamed of as kids. It’s the best.
And to flip it: Bliss, what did you notice about Eso once he decided to quit drinking alcohol?
Bliss: It’s hard to totally fathom the change, because you kind of had to be with us at the time of the wild times, to really see … I mean, we were all crazy, but this guy was, like, another level. I was so proud of him, and I put it in my lyrics in Devil On My Shoulder. I told him how proud I was of him, because it wasn’t easy. (Sample lyric: “And Macka, I’m f..king proud of you, brother / It couldn’t be any rougher on that road to recover / And how you got through the withdrawals, lord knows! / Stuck in a 50 degree Afghanistan war zone”)
He did fight us to go to Afghanistan; he didn’t want to go, and I knew he was scared because it was a dry zone. I knew in the back of my mind that it could be the start of something. Obviously, it was his decision; it was all on him. He had to go through that. And it was a horrific few weeks that he had to go through, physically and mentally. I remember him in bathtubs, DJ Izm trying to shower him; the physical withdrawals were hectic.
And like he just said about me: I got my guy back, too. Because when we started as teenagers, it wasn’t that level of wildness. Sure, there was dipping in and out of fun and stuff, but it was all about the music. When you go on wild journeys, you kind of lose a bit of that; people get moody with each other.
Also, I had previously done a lot of the more managerial stuff; working in the background, making sure stuff got done. After Macka made that change, it was incredible to see how much more hands-on he got with all that, and started helping me, and we started being more of a team. Now it’s really a true partnership, and that’s awesome.
You’re coming up on 12 years off booze, Eso – congratulations. The music industry remains rife with alcohol, though: how have you learned to maintain your sobriety while working in that environment?
Eso: You’ve got to navigate it a bit. It’s on you, and it’ll be on you for the rest of your life, you know? So if you’re going to crumble if you walk into a room of people drinking, then you lose. You’ve got to navigate it yourself. I’ve got to be able to be cool to walk into a room where people are drinking, and absolutely be fine with it. If the drinking is out of control and they’re drunk, I tend to just leave the room; I don’t hang around too many drunk people. But yeah, it’s tough, and it’s always a struggle, every day.
But it’s living in this country, too. It’s not just the music industry; wherever you go here, it’s drinking. Whether it’s a funeral, a wedding, an event; everything. It’s a constant – navigating it, staying on top of it – which feels good, to be able to keep knocking out (punches hand into fist for emphasis).
Bliss: For me, personally, I’ll pick my spots where I’ll have some fun (drinking) – but it ain’t all the time, because I just don’t want to feel like that. I think half the battle is just having that experience; sometimes, you’ve got to go through the “down” to get back to the “up”. You’ve got to take these lessons with it; it’s just part of life.
In terms of exercise today, what are you each fond of?
Bliss: I like to start each morning with coffee and a 60-minute walk. I split it up with a bit of weights during the week; nothing too hectic. I keep my sessions short. That’s a key for me: I’m in and out in half an hour, and I love to jump in the sauna afterwards. The sauna, and the ice bath, for me is the new drug. The (chemical) stuff it releases in the brain, and what it does to the body – you feel amazing afterwards.
Eso: I’m not so much of a gym man, but I’m a family man. I have to constantly take my bloody Kelpie dogs for walks along the beach. I live up near Byron Bay way, and I’ve got a nine-year-old son who keeps me on my bloody toes; I’m constantly trying to take him to basketball. Trying to keep up with him is big. (laughs) But like Jonny said: if you don’t move it, you lose it, at this age.
Bliss: And also, to be honest: the shows, man. We’re doing full-blown, HIIT (high-intensity interval training) sessions at every show. We feed off the crowd’s energy, and we are going, man. It’s go-time. There’s so much jumping, and it’s constant back-and-forth body movement. The shows are a massive cardio session. I put my Apple Watch on one time, just because I was interested, and it was well over 1000 calories (burned) for the show.
Bliss, to be blunt: in terms of your muscle definition, you’re shredded. Are you proud of how you look today?
Bliss: Look, because of where I was, it feels good to know that I did something about it, and I stuck to it. Man, I tell you, it takes fortitude. It really takes a mental strength to be disciplined. At first, breaking out of those bad habits wasn’t easy. But when you start seeing these little wins … When I started, I did it with a personal trainer, and he got me to take the “before” and progress photos, and also your weight checks, and DEXA scans (to measure bone density), so I could see the numbers. I’m a numbers guy; I like to see the metrics and understand the science of it all.
And I’ll be honest, man: if you feel good, and you look good, and you feel proud of yourself, it’s a motivational force. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I think it’s a good thing, because it gives you confidence within. But it’s something you can’t take for granted, because you have to maintain it. I can slip right back, and just be eating terrible, and do all the wrong things again. On those days where I feel like just can’t be bothered (working out), I’m like, “Just do a little something. Just go for a walk – half an hour.” I’m not psycho about it; I’ll give myself slack. Just a little win, even if we’re not feeling that good.
Eso, you’ve seen the before-and-after in your friend; you now see his willingness and his happiness at taking his shirt off on stage. Does that make you proud to see the changes Bliss has made in his life?
Eso: Yeah, of course, man. I see a younger dude that may have not have had that body, and wanted to have that body. (laughs) If you got it, gloat it; throw it around, mate.
Lastly: you both seem very aware of the fact that you are role models, not just for your fans and listeners, but for your family members, and for your son, Eso. How do you carry that knowledge into your artistry?
Eso: That’s a tough one, because I don’t want to feel trapped in (thinking) that my son is listening, or my son’s teacher’s listening, the parents at school are listening … Then I get very, very boxed in on what I can talk about. So as much as it feels good to be role models for certain things, I definitely don’t like to be boxed in. My wife had told me, “Listen, when you go down and write for this next album – be yourself. Don’t worry about what other people are thinking. You want to be dirty here? You want to be rude there? You want to be positive here? Do it.” It allowed me to just not feel boxed in, like I’ve got to be a role model, or I’ve got to do this for these certain people; you just have to allow yourself to be yourself.
Bliss: Being an artist, you need to feel free with it. And it’s about having fun: we fell in love with hip-hop because we were having fun, and we weren’t thinking about all that. That came later, naturally. That’s the most important thing that hits people: if we just be ourselves, and if there’s something that they take out of it? Fantastic. But we’re not sitting there thinking, “Oh, I can’t say this” – because then it feels trapped, and that’s not fun anymore. If we’re going to keep doing this, it’s all about having fun. It’s the best thing ever.
Bliss N Eso’s eighth album, The Moon (The Light Side), will be released on April 11 via Flight Deck / Mushroom Music. The trio’s 27-date national tour will begin in Toowoomba (May 23) and end in Airlie Beach (August 16). Tickets: blissneso.com
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