John Pesutto’s honesty questioned in tense grilling during defamation trial

The Opposition Leader has repeatedly insisted he is being truthful about a dossier of evidence his office prepared to expel Moira Deeming, and a secret recording of a meeting with the exiled MP.

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Opposition Leader John Pesutto’s honesty has been called into question during a tense grilling in his defamation battle with Moira Deeming.

Mr Pesutto repeatedly insisted he was being truthful during his first two hours of cross examination on Tuesday, in relation to both a dossier of evidence his office prepared to expel Mrs Deeming, and a secret recording of a meeting with the exiled MP which was taped by deputy David Southwick.

He said he was only made aware of the recording — which has become central to the case — sometime at the end of 2023 or early 2024 and rejected any suggestion he knew earlier.

The court heard he only told his lawyers about the recording a week before the defamation trial began after learning that Mrs Deeming also had a secret recording of another meeting.

Asked by Mrs Deeming’s lawyer, Sue Chrysnathou, SC, whether it was a fear that she might also have more recordings that prompted him to disclose the tape, he rejected the suggestion.

“Essentially I didn’t see it as my material to take into my possession or disclose,” Mr Pesutto said.

“I didn’t want it in my possession.

“It has always been my view that recordings of that nature are, as I’ve always understood the law, perfectly legal, it’s just not been my practice to do that, and that’s why I didn’t seek a copy.”

Opposition Leader John Pesutto’s honesty has been called into question during his cross examination. Picture: Aaron Francis

The secret recording captured a March 2023 meeting between Mr Pesutto and his leadership team, his former chief of staff Rodrigo Pintos-Lopez, and Mrs Deeming the day after she attended a Let Women Speak rally that prompted moves to expel her from the party.

Mr Pesutto said he completely rejected the suggestion he had kept the recording secret because it directly contradicted a version of events he had told both the media and his party room about the meeting.

“I was always confident that the meeting was handled appropriately and well,” Mr Pesutto said.

Ms Chrysanthou also slammed a dossier of evidence used to back his case to expel Mrs Deeming as “no better than a project prepared by an eight year old”.

She accused Mr Pesutto of failing to afford Mrs Deeming procedural fairness and failing to take adequate care in the preparation of the 15-page dossier of evidence compiled to back his case.

In it, he accused her of having Nazi links and “conducting activities in a manner likely to bring discredit on the parliament or the parliamentary party.”

“This was and could never be a judicial process,” Mr Pesutto said.

“We wanted to be fair as we could in the circumstances.

“It was not a judicial process. We had pressures of time. There were a range of considerations,” he said.

Mr Pesutto’s lawyer told the court Mrs Deeming should have known the rally she helped organise would be politically toxic. Picture: Aaron Francis

It came as Matt Collins, KC, for Mr Pesutto, told the court Mrs Deeming should have known the rally she helped organise would have been politically toxic.

And he said links between British organiser Kellie-Jay Keen, neo-Nazis and far-Right extremists were on the public record.

X users began messaging Mrs Deeming during the rally accusing her of being linked to Nazis, he said.

Mr Collins said those messages drew links between Mrs Deeming and Nazis well before Mr Pesutto began moves to expel her from the party.

“Mr Pesutto held the view that the public interest required that he explained to the public that these sorts of associations, according to the mainstream media, are politically toxic, and that he acted on the basis of the information that was in the public domain,” he said.

“A member of a mainstream political party which aspires to government, a member of that party, has no business in organising rallies to the extent that Mrs Deeming did, without having done basic research, which would have uncovered just how toxic these associations would prove to be.”

That fact that publications were made that defamed Mrs Deeming has already been conceded by Mr Pesutto’s legal team.

But they are relying on a public interest defence to the comments which focuses on the honest and reasonable belief in the truth of a publication.