NZ debate No 2: Sparks as Jacinda Ardern, Judith Collins clash in NZ ‘pub quiz’

Jacinda Ardern and rival Judith Collins clashed on the climate and legalising marijuana, which the PM admitted she’d smoked.

It wasn’t quite the cage fight of the Trump-Biden debate, but sparks certainly flew when Jacinda Ardern and Judith Collins went head to head in a debate the NZ Prime Minister later described as “a pop quiz.”

Ms Ardern and the leader of the opposition National Party clashed in the Newshub 2020 Leaders’ Debate on coronavirus, the climate and legalising marijuana – which the Prime Minister admitted, to applause, she had smoked “a long time ago”. She refused to say which way she would vote in the country’s referendum on legalising recreational use, while Ms Collins was adamant that she would oppose it.

Both women interrupted and jibed at each other, although moderator Patrick Gower was adept at bringing them back to the topic under debate and moving them onto the next issue.

Ms Ardern told the National leader: “Deep breath” during a testy exchange about each party’s record on housing, while Ms Collins responded to the PM’s demand that she reveal her climate plan with: “What for, dear?”

Arguing about the economic modelling, Ms Ardern asked Ms Collins to stop interrupting, saying: “Model some good behaviour.”

Each leader stood firm on their parties’ policies. Ms Ardern said she would declare a climate emergency if re-elected – something she hasn’t firmly supported before; while Ms Collins vowed to clamp down on growing gang numbers.

Judith Collins speaks in the second NZ debate. Picture: Getty Images.

Jacinda Ardern clashed repeatedly with her rival. Picture: Getty Images.

On coronavirus, there were fewer differences although Ms Ardern’s experience in dealing with the pandemic put her ahead of Ms Collins.

Asked if they could promise a trans-Tasman bubble by Christmas, Ms Collins said yes, if it was safe enough. She said the party’s proposed “Border Force” and rollout of bluetooth contact tracing technology would be in place by Christmas.

Ms Ardern responded that the virus was “trickier” than her rival believed. She said she had been placed under “enormous pressure” to open the borders with Australia but “They (the Australian federal government) changed their minds … and have not yet established what a hot spot is.”

Asked what their Plan B would be if a vaccine never eventuated, both admitted to having no plan. Ms Ardern pointed out that Europe was already showing their Plan B: “You only have to look at other countries in Europe, the Plan B is co-existing with Covid, people losing their lives.”

Both women supported New Zealand moving from three to four-year terms and both opposed (for the moment) renaming New Zealand Aotearoa, its Maori name that means Land of the Long White Cloud. Ms Ardern said she make it compulsory to teach Maori in schools but Ms Collins said she would not – although she was trying to learn more of the Maori language herself.

They both predictably promised to work with Donald Trump if he was re-elected, although Ms Collins went further, praising the US President’s role in the decision by Bahrain and the UAE to open diplomatic relations with Israel adding that it was “a damn sight better than war” in the Middle East.

There were emotional moments: asked about funding for cancer drugs, Ms Collins said thanks to lockdown, her brother-in-law had to hear over the phone that he had terminal cancer. “It’s appalling, it really upsets me,” she said of the fact that thousands of NZers die each year because they can’t access life-saving drugs.

In lighter moments, Ms Collins said if she would “absolutely like” to appear on the cover of Vogue as Ms Ardern did, if asked, adding that any politician who said they would not “is a liar.”

There was laughter, too, when Mr Gower asked them to comment on each other’s “brands.”

Ms Collins said Ms Ardern was a “very good” communicator, and her rival praised her as being “very assertive in a debate”.

“Damn right,” Ms Collins replied.

Both leaders comported themselves well,

Ms Ardern said later the pub had “almost a pub quiz feel” rather than a political debate.

“I did enjoy the debate and the discussion. There were topics in there tonight that don’t dominate in the campaign trail,” she told TVNZ.

Ms Collins said: “I actually thought it was a great debate, there was loads of energy, and I hope people were watching.”