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Cardinal George Pell testifies from Rome for abuse royal commission: day three

Cardinal Pell regrets that priests accused of paedophilia could resign on ill health grounds | TODAY’S KEY POINTS

John Lyons and Jacquelin Magnay
11 min read
1:11PMMarch 02, 2016.
Updated 2:45PMMarch 02, 2016
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Pell: "I should have done more"

Cardinal George Pell has given evidence to the royal commission for a third day about what he knew of sexual abuse by paedophile priests and brothers in Victoria in the 1970s.

The cardinal, who is now the Vatican’s finance chief, was too ill to return to Australia for questioning and is testifying live via videolink from the Hotel Quirinale in Rome in front of a group of survivors from Ballarat.

Here’s how yesterday unfolded. Updates on today’s hearing from Jacquelin Magnay in Rome and John Lyons and Dan Box at The Royal Commission in Sydney, are below.

All times AEST

1.05pm: Hearing adjourned

12.20pm: Lawyers begin questioning

Counsel assisting Gail Furness has finished her three days of questioning. Next will be lawyers for various victims.

12.40pm: ‘Among safest institutions in Australia’

Pell says Melbourne Response is reason why Catholic Church “is among the safest institutions in Australia”. It’s met by groans from the public gallery.

12.25pm: Priests’ resignations misleading

Cardinal George Pell says it is wrong and misleading to allow priests accused of paedophilia to resign on the grounds of ill health.

Cardinal Pell admits he knew about complaints against one of the Melbourne priests who was allowed to resign on health grounds. Counsel assisting the child abuse royal commission Gail Furness SC said it meant priests could leave without their name being sullied by any allegations and parishioners were misled about the true reasons for the resignation.

Cardinal Pell said: “That would be wrong and inadequate, and another factor in judging the level of wrongness would be the truth or otherwise of the health claims,” Cardinal Pell said.

12.20pm Pell’s statement on meeting survivors

11.45am: Hearing resumes

11.40am: No gag order, no Pell

Sky is reporting that abuse survivors have turned down a meeting with Cardinal Pell after being asked to sign a nondisclosure agreement. More to follow ...

11.25am: 20 minute break before commission sits for an extra hour.

11.24am: Evidence ‘completely implausible’

Cardinal George Pell’s claim he was deceived by senior clerics and staff about paedophile activity is “implausible”, the child abuse royal commission has heard.

Counsel assisting Gail Furness SC said his claim the Catholic Education Office did not tell him what it knew about a paedophile priest in Melbourne in the 1980s was “designed to deflect blame from you on doing nothing”.

Cardinal Pell was an auxiliary bishop who received complaints in 1989 about Father Peter Searson hitting and abusing students and harassing parents in the parish of Doveton.

“I have to suggest to you that your evidence in relation to not being briefed properly or adequately by the Catholic Education Office, and the reasons for that, are completely implausible,” Ms Furness said.

“I suggest that indeed you did have knowledge in relation to Father Ridsdale’s misconduct [discussed yesterday], either during or shortly after the consultators meeting in 1982.” “That is inaccurate,” Cardinal Pell replied.

“I suggest to you that the Catholic Education Office properly and adequately briefed you in relation to Father Searson.” “They certainly did not.”

11.20am: Knife held to girl’s chest

Commission chair Justice Peter McClellan said by 1993 it was notorious among all priests near Searson’s parish that Father Peter Searson was a serious problem and should not be a priest.

Cardinal Pell said he knew Searson was a serious problem but he did not come to the conclusion that Searson should not be a priest. “The position I accepted was the official position given to me that we did not have sufficient evidence to remove him,” he said.

The commission has heard Searson held a knife to a girl’s chest in March 1993 and told her “if you move, this will go through you”.

Counsel assisting the commission Gail Furness SC said it was outrageous that the curia was given that information and did nothing.

“The police had been informed and they investigated and they couldn’t proceed,” Cardinal Pell said.

“The recommendation was that nothing could be done. I’m not quite sure what the reasons were.”

Justice McClellan said the church had a responsibility to deal with allegations irrespective of whether police could take action because the parents were not willing to pursue the matter.

“Whatever the position of the parents, that doesn’t relieve the church of the obligation to deal with priests who are incapable of acting appropriately with children in their parishes does it?” Cardinal Pell replied: “That does not relieve the church of such an obligation but it is a factor of how you can go forward effectively.” Justice McClellan said the curia advising the archbishop also had a responsibility to ensure the safety of children.

Cardinal Pell agreed but he could not remember what was said at the curia meetings to justify inaction.

10.38am: ‘I was deceived again on abuse’

Cardinal George Pell has again claimed he was deceived by people within the Catholic Church who knew about sexual abuse by paedophile priests, but chose not to reveal this to him.

He told the child abuse royal commission he had sought a briefing from the Catholic Education Office after a delegation came to him in 1989, when he was an auxiliary bishop in the Melbourne archdiocese, to complain about a priest, Father Peter Searson. Complaints against Father Searson included abusing and harassing children and parents and harming animals in the Doveton parish.

However, Cardinal Pell said the education office didn’t share a considerable amount of information they had about Searson’s behaviour.

Commissioner Peter McClellan asked Cardinal Pell if he could give any reason why the education office “would choose to deceive you in relation to Searson’s behaviour?”.

“Yes, I was a new boy on the block,” Cardinal Pell told the commission on Wednesday via an audio visual link from Rome.

“I was known to be capable of being outspoken.

“They might have been fearful of just what line I would take when confronted with all the information.” Cardinal Pell agreed that there should be disciplinary action against the education office staff who deceived him.

On Tuesday the cardinal told the commission he was deceived by the former Bishop of Ballarat, Ronald Mulkearns, when he was a priest in that diocese in the 1970s and early 1980s about the behaviour of the now notorious paedophile priest Gerald Ridsdale. Cardinal Pell was asked on Wednesday why he was deceived in the case of Ridsdale and Searson.

“In both cases, it’s a mystery but in both cases for some reason, they were covering up,” he said.

“I think they would have covered up from me, as I mentioned earlier, because they would have feared that I would not accept the status quo.” Counsel assisting the commission Gail Furness put to the cardinal that his claims about the education office were “completely implausible” and were designed to deflect blame from himself.

“I can only tell you the truth,” Cardinal Pell replied.

10.15am: What did Pell do about Searson?

Further questioning about Father Peter Searson, who Pell earlier today described as one of the most unpleasant priests he had ever met. What did Pell know and do about complaints against him?

10.10am: Pell agrees to Bolt interview

Columnist and broadcaster Andrew Bolt has secured an exclusive interview with Cardinal Pell at the conclusion of his evidence to the royal commission. Read the full story here

10am: Survivors make plea to Pope

There has been a dramatic development in Rome as the Ballarat survivors group made a televised plea to Pope Francis to meet them to “save the children” because Cardinal George Pell has turned his back on them.

Survivor Andrew Collins said they had requested a meeting with the Pope last week and again on Monday but were being frustrated in their efforts to organise a meeting.

Another survivor Phil Nagle says the survivors want to meet with Pope Francis rather than Cardinal Pell because of the less-than-forthright evidence being given by the Cardinal to the Royal Commission.

In a statement read outside the Hotel Quirinale the survivors said: “This is about children, abused and damaged in the past, we would like to request a meeting to implement systems so this is not repeated again. We are flying back on Friday and we would like to think we can get a meeting.”

Mr Collins said: “We are getting a bit tired of hearing what George is saying on the stand. We want to hear from someone who cares about us. George is giving us nothing. He doesn’t care, he is turning our back on us, we don’t want to meet with George at all”.

9.55am: Hearing resumes

9.30am: Hearing adjourns for short break

9.06am: Gun-toting priest ‘one of most unpleasant’

Discussion has begun on Father Peter Searson, a man Cardinal Pell described as one of the most unpleasant priests he had ever met. Counsel assisting Gail Furness read a letter of complaint about Father Searson tickling a girl and telling her not to look at herself in the shower.

Observers in the Verdi Room at the Hotel Quirinale gasped and Cardinal Pell immediately interjected and said such behaviour was “terrible’’.

Cardinal Pell agreed a 1984 complaint to Archbishop Little about Searson pointing a handgun at people suggested he was unsuitable to be a parish priest.

“Given that this came after the Sunbury matters, I think it’s extraordinary that at the very least there was no official inquiry,” he said.

Parents had also complained how Searson had also asked children to kneel between his legs when at confession.

Ms Furness said: “That’s quite abhorrent isn’t it?”

Cardinal Pell agreed: “Yes it is. That would have to be established by an inquiry, it would be something that needs to be investigated.”

A 1997 church investigation into Father Searson concluded he had for years sexually abused girls at the parish of Doveton, outside Melbourne. However, Searson successfully appealed to Rome the ruling by the church’s internal Independent Commissioner into Sexual Abuse, Peter O’Callaghan QC, who had been appointed by Cardinal Pell, then archbishop of Melbourne. Searson argued Mr O’Callaghan didn’t have the jurisdiction to make such a finding.

Cardinal Pell said his predecessor as Melbourne archbishop Frank Little had a “blind spot” when it came to dealing with Searson.

Bishop Little did not reveal there was a long list of complaints about one priest, when Cardinal Pell had sought advice when he was auxiliary bishop in the Melbourne archdiocese in the 1980s.

“I have to say that I am strongly critical of it,” he said of Archbishop Little’s handling of complaints about Sunbury parish priest Father Peter Searson.

Cardinal Pell said he only discovered recently someone had prepared a one-and-a-half page list of infractions by Searson. He said he was never told about the list or knew the seriousness of the matters involved.

Cardinal Pell was critical that Archbishop Little had concealed information and allowed priests to either remain in place or transfer.

The commission heard Archbishop Little did not investigate after receiving a letter telling him children in the parish had been warned not to attend Searson’s office unless accompanied by an adult or another child.

Archbishop Little resigned four years early, Cardinal Pell said. He suspected part of the reason was “the way he handled paedophilia cases”.

8.42am: Pell puts boot in

Cardinal George Pell says his predecessor as Melbourne archbishop did not act on child abuse when he should have.

Cardinal Pell said he was strongly critical of and deeply disturbed by what came out about the handling of complaints by Frank Little, who was Archbishop of Melbourne from 1974 to 1996. “Archbishop Little on some occasions did not act when he should have and certainly did not make appropriate information available to the personnel advisory board on some occasions,” Cardinal Pell told the commission from Rome.

8.36am: Technical glitch

8.35am: Questioning moves to Melbourne

8.12am: ‘I should have done more’

Cardinal Pell has expressed regret that he did not do more when he found out about a Christian Brother who was a danger to children in the 1970s.

Cardinal Pell has said he heard vague and unspecific rumours about Brother Edward Dowlan from about two students and two priests, but was told by the school chaplain at Ballarat’s St Patrick’s College that the Christian Brothers were dealing with it. “I regret that I didn’t do more at that stage,” he told the child abuse royal commission. (See video below)

Pell: "I should have done more"

Brother Dowlan was moved to another parish after an allegation of sexual abuse.

Cardinal Pell admitted he did not tell the Bishop.

Asked by Royal Commissioner Peter McClellan whether he was part of a procedure which simply meant the brother could offend against other children, Cardinal Pell said that was not unusual at the time.

Cardinal Pell said he did not take any further action to determine what the Christian Brothers did about Dowlan after speaking to the chaplain.

“No I didn’t, but I soon became aware that Dowlan was shifted,” he told the inquiry from Rome on the third day of his evidence. “It was a generalised suggestion, accusation. There was nothing specific.

Cardinal Pell said he should have consulted the St Patrick’s College headmaster and ensured the matter was properly treated. “I didn’t think of it and when I was told they were dealing with it at that time I was quite content,” he said.

8am: Hearing begins

7.21am: Mulkearns to give evidence

The royal commission has confirmed Bishop Ronald Mulkearns will give further evidence at a further date. The commission says Bishop Mulkearns has not been excused from further attendance. According to medical advice, Bishop Mulkearns is only capable of giving evidence for an hour-and-a-half at a time, and would require several days to recover before being further questioned. Bishop Mulkearns will give further evidence at a date to be confirmed.

7.14am: In for the long haul

The royal commission is expected to sit for a fourth day, and given the topics still to be covered, do not be surprised if the session is extended beyond the four hours, or perhaps into a fifth day.

6.08am: Pell arrives

It’s a later arrival than usual for Cardinal Pell. Some survivors have already arrived, and they have told of increasing difficulties arranging a meeting with the Cardinal for Thursday.

It appears the Cardinal doesn’t want to meet the Ballarat survivors as a group, insisting on small groups of two or three and no legal representatives with the meeting inside the Vatican. So far the survivors are split on whether to accept the Cardinal’s terms.

There is also a strong likelihood the hearing will go into a fourth day of evidence.

4am: What to expect today

The pressure has been building. Will it explode later this morning during Cardinal George Pell’s third day of evidence to the Royal Commission Into Institutional Responses to Child Abuse?

Cardinal Pell’s stunning comments of yesterday have been picked up by the Italian media – ensuring that Pope Francis and the Vatican – are well aware of the commission’s developments.

Cardinal Pell said a number of people knew about child offender Gerard Ridsdale but he wasn’t going to trouble himself about it: “I couldn’t say everyone knew, I knew a number of people did, I didn’t know if it was common knowledge or not. It was a sad story and it wasn’t of much interest to me.’’

Yesterday there were many punchy exchanges between Cardinal Pell and the counsel assisting the commissioner, Gail Furness, and today’s episode is tipped for further fireworks.

One bright note for the Cardinal is that the weather has cleared in Rome and he won’t get wet arriving at the Hotel Quirinale.

Clergy abuse survivors, feeling increasingly angry at Cardinal Pell’s evidence, spent the day at his ‘’home’’ church, the Domus Australia and tying ribbons on the window railings.

Survivor Phil Nagle said outside the church:’’ if Cardinal Pell had any honour he’ll make sure these ribbons stay here and he’ll show us the courtesy of not coming here and tying one himself’’.

More Coverage

Pell’s day: from bad to disaster
JOHN LYONS
Abuse ‘not of much interest’
DAN BOX
Sides seek power of the papacy
JACQUELIN MAGNAY
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Original URL: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/in-depth/royal-commission/cardinal-george-pell-testifies-from-rome-for-abuse-royal-commission-day-three/news-story/530989436724c8768480f12f259dbbae