Cabinet documents said robodebt was legal: Malcolm Turnbull

The then-PM says he was concerned about the ‘accuracy and fairness’ of the scheme but accepted his minister’s assurances.

Malcolm Turnbull gives evidence at the Royal Commission into the Robodebt scheme.

Malcolm Turnbull was concerned about the “accuracy and fairness” of the robodebt scheme in January 2017 when he sent then human services minister Alan Tudge a WhatsApp message inquiring about it, but hadn’t turned his mind to whether it was illegal because an earlier cabinet submission had declared it was.

The former Prime Minister appeared by videolink before the robodebt royal commission on Monday, saying he had accepted Mr Tudge’s advice about the appropriateness of using “income averaging” to determine welfare eligibility because “he was the responsible minister”.

In an appearance lasting less than an hour, Mr Turnbull was grilled about his level of understanding of the scheme’s legality and the content of his private WhatsApp conversations on the issue with Mr Tudge and Christian Porter.

Commissioner Catherine Holmes SC asked Mr Turnbull about a WhatsApp exchange with Mr Tudge on January 7 focusing on concerns raised in the media about the scheme’s operation.

“He had assured you that it wasn‘t correct (for the media) to say that they would simply taking the average of the income declared to ATO and applying it evenly across 26 fortnights, but as must have become apparent to you at some stage that’s exactly what happened in many cases,” Commissioner Holmes said.

“I just don’t recall that, I’m afraid,” Mr Turnbull said. “I accepted … what he was saying … as he was the responsible minister.”

Former human services minister Alan Tudge in parliament. Picture: AAP

A couple of weeks later, amid further questions coming from the media, Mr Turnbull said he sought further information from Mr Tudge.

He referenced a WhatsApp message on January 20, 2017 “where I say, Alan, we need a frank assessment of what the problems are and what is happening to fix them. Are you sure your department is giving you the right advice on what is happening so you know, I guess I was pressing him.”

Mr Turnbull was asked if he believed Mr Tudge had a good grasp of the detail of the scheme, which used an automated method of calculating welfare recipients’ alleged debts using averaging data from the tax office, subsequently ruled as illegal.

“I always regarded (him) as a technocrat. He was a management consultant. He had a lot of experience. I didn’t regard him as being a negligent or incompetent or careless minister,” Mr Turnbull said.

Mr Turnbull said he and his office “didn’t turn our mind to legality” of the scheme, and that the focus of his correspondence with the relevant ministers at the time was to ensure it was operating with “accuracy and fairness.”

He said he considered the legality issue had been dealt with in a 2014 cabinet submission by then social services minister Scott Morrison which noted the Australian Government Solicitor had advised on the scheme and declared it lawful.

The royal commission is inquiring into the robodebt scheme, which falsely accused thousands of welfare recipients of being overpaid benefits based on an automated calculation using income averaging. The government chased those who didn’t pay despite evidence of flaws in the scheme.

The commission continues.