‘Defence of our values is what we will continue to do’: Dutton

Not since the 1960s and ’70s has national security and defence policy loomed so large in an election campaign.

‘Defence and national security have become a core election issue’ says Peter Dutton. Picture Emma Brasier

Not since the 1960s and ’70s has national security and defence policy loomed so large in an election campaign. For Defence Minister Peter Dutton, the choice voters have to make between the Coalition and Labor could have significant ramifications for generations to come.

“Defence and national security have become a core election issue,” Dutton says in an exclusive interview with Inquirer.

“Australians can see with their own eyes what is happening in Ukraine, potentially in broader Europe, and what is unfolding here in the Indo-Pacific. So, the issue of national security and protecting and defending our country, and our border, is a central issue in this campaign and there is a significant difference between the approach of the two parties.”

Dutton has been a strong advocate for Australia’s defence forces and is clear-eyed about the challenge of dealing with an assertive China. He has been blunt about China’s intentions and how Australia should respond, and he has upset some in the broad foreign policy establishment with his approach.

But the Defence Minister’s robust prosecution of his arguments has been matched by action, with the Coalition almost doubling defence spending since it came to office, lifting from 1.56 per cent of gross domestic product – the lowest level since 1938 – to 2 per cent of GDP and growing.

Josh Frydenberg told me a fortnight ago that more of the budget will need to be spent on defence and national security in coming years. Dutton is equally determined to ensure that Australia’s defence and security needs do not go unfunded.

The decision to tear up the $90bn submarine contract with France’s Naval Group to acquire US or British nuclear-powered submarines is one Dutton insists was right, despite the cost. He said if France was told earlier, it would have pressured the US to withdraw from AUKUS and scuttle the new submarine deal.

National Press Club debate between Liberal Minister of Defence Peter Dutton and Shadow Minister Brendan O'Connor. Picture: Jane Dempster

“The most significant decision we have made is the AUKUS deal,” Dutton says.

“It provides not only the nuclear-propelled submarines but also a closer collaboration with two key allies … and it provides for the security and safety underpinning the next 50 years (at) a very precarious time.”

However, the AUKUS agreement with the US and Britain will not see the eight nuclear-powered submarines hit the water until perhaps 2040 or 2050, according to some analysts. Dutton says these claims are nonsense and he will soon outline the model and clarify the delivery schedule.

“It is just not the reality and it is not the indication that we received from our partners in the UK and the US,” Dutton says about the timetable.

“There is a complete understanding of the need to acquire capability quickly and the need to work very closely in the Indo-Pacific.

“The Americans absolutely understand the urgency that is involved and the reason that they entered into AUKUS was because they want to see an extension of that power into the Indo-Pacific and we intend to work very closely with them to realise the capability as soon as possible.

“I’m very confident that we can make an announcement in the not-too-distant future about which submarine we are going with and how it is we intend to get that into service as quickly as possible.

“So that’s the approach that we would take and we have put ourselves in a position to be able to make that announcement and most importantly to deliver on it.”

The Coalition’s $270bn defence capability plan has featured strongly in the election campaign, with Dutton and Scott Morrison explaining that new submarines, tanks and missiles are not only important for defence preparedness but boost local manufacturing and create jobs. There has been a plethora of announcements about new patrol boats, helicopters, air base upgrades, equipment for special operations forces, industry internships and training programs, business and research partnerships, defence manufacturing support and services for veterans.

The PM and Dutton at TAE Aerospace, an emerging global aerospace company and Australia. Picture: Jason Edwards

While Dutton wants Australia to be more self-reliant, he is eager to see the US increase its military presence in Australia and is working with US Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin to host more marines on rotation in Darwin and expand aircraft deployments, logistics co-operation and maritime capability. He also has spoken to Britain about its military presence in Australia.

“I’ve been very clear to my counterpart, Lloyd Austin, about that,” Dutton says. “I have also had similar conversations with the UK. We would very much welcome the increased presence. I think it provides an additional security layer for our own country … and therefore a greater engagement and awareness of what is happening in the Indo-Pacific.”

Dealing with China is the central challenge for Australia’s foreign and defence policymakers. Chinese economic coercion such as restricting market access for goods and services is blatantly transparent but there is much more going on that some Australians may not be fully aware of.

“It is a very significant, aggressive, posture that they are engaging in,” Dutton says of China. “There is a lot of propaganda and denial and bluster and calling black white, but the reality is China is a very different country under President Xi.”

The level of foreign interference by China in Australia is on a larger and more sophisticated scale, Dutton suggests, than the Soviet Union’s interference in Australia’s affairs in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s.

“The immediate past director-general of ASIO (Duncan Lewis) and the current director-general of ASIO (Mike Burgess) have been very clear about this – the fact that there is an unprecedented level of foreign interference in our country, predominantly by China.

“The influence has been evidenced through investigations by ASIO and intelligence that they collect, and that is not just in Australia – we see it in many other countries around the world.

“There’s an industrial-scale effort by the Chinese in foreign interference and that’s the modern reality. The level of sophistication now – the use of technology, the use of encryption and the way in which the model has evolved into a sophisticated gathering syndicate – is quite remarkable and the scale quite astounding, and it is going to continue to grow.”

Intelligence experts say China is using networks through local Chinese community organisations, Chinese language media and online platforms such as WeChat to influence the election. WeChat is awash with disinformation, unauthorised advertising and undisclosed donations.

Beyond Australia’s borders, the Chinese are expanding their influence. The China-Solomon Islands security pact was described by Home Affairs Minister Karen Andrews as a form of foreign interference in the election. Dutton repudiates claims the pact represents a failure of Australian foreign policy. He says Australia will remain “very dear friends” with Solomon Islands.

“I just don’t accept it,” he says. “The influence that we are seeing in the Solomon Islands is no different to what we are seeing in many other countries around the world. The problem is not with those other countries – not with Japan, India, The Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, New Zealand, Australia – the problem is with China.”

Last November, Dutton told me that should China invade Taiwan and the US asked Australia to contribute to the defence of that embattled island, we would join that effort. These comments were reported around the world.

“It would be inconceivable that we wouldn’t support the US in an action if the US chose to take that action,” he said last year. “We should be very frank and honest about that, look at all of the facts and circumstances without pre-committing, and maybe there are circumstances where we wouldn’t take up that option, (but) I can’t conceive of those circumstances.”

Dutton did not wind back those comments this week.

“We are in an alliance with the US,” he notes. “I would make a decision, as defence minister, based on whatever I believed was in our country’s best interests, and I strongly believe it is in our country’s best interests to have the support of the US.

“We have demonstrated through AUKUS that we are a reliable partner (of) both the US, the UK, and through our bilateral arrangements that we have in place with many other countries. Australia is a country that stands up for her values, for our democracy, we’ve fought for it, we have just commemorated Anzac Day which has been all about the defence of our values over generations, and that is what we will continue to do.”

As the campaign enters its final week, defence policy will continue to be front and centre. Dutton and Brendan O’Connor, Labor’s defence spokesman, debated at the National Press Club. But the low-key O’Connor does not seem eager to talk defence policy. (His office did not respond to my request for an interview.)

“Labor always goes into an election promising to have exact­ly the same, carbon-copy, defence policy and they never deliver,” Dutton claims.

“They always find higher priorities than defence … there are jobs, uniform jobs, that are at risk, there are defence industry jobs that are at risk if Labor is elected and people should be very conscious of that.”

Anthony Albanese has not guaranteed O’Connor will hold the defence portfolio if Labor wins the election. It is likely he will be moved to another ministry. Dutton expects to continue as defence minister if Morrison leads the government to another miracle victory. The work, he says, is not finished.

“The government has put money into defence and Labor pulled money out,” Dutton says. “We are acquiring capability in an unprecedented way and that job is partly done and that is why it is essential, in my judgment, that the government is re-elected to continue that work.”