Shameless duo Zara McDonald and Michelle Andrews on mixing high and low culture

They make no apologies for content that ranges from Julia Gillard to reality TV.

Michelle Andrews and Zara McDonald say their pop culture podcast Shameless is aimed at ‘smart people who like dumb stuff’.

When Melbourne journalists Zara McDonald and Michelle Andrews decided to monetise their pop culture podcast, Shameless, they haunted the aisles at Coles and Woolworths for inspiration.

The twenty-somethings listed the food and beauty items they liked that were targeted at young women, researched the best email contacts, then cold-called manufacturers and distributors pitching for sponsorship.

Says McDonald: “We just wanted brands that we used, makeup, ice cream. I think our first sponsor was an ice cream brand we loved. We saw there was a small but very engaged audience so we looked for brands that would connect with them.”

With 300,000 downloads of their podcast each week, the broadcasters no longer sell their own ads. They have a branding and marketing manager and sponsors ranging from Nissan to Denada sugar-free ice cream to Maybelline and Garnier beauty products, and they limit each episode to one sponsor.

The duo believes community is key to the twice-weekly podcast’s success. It’s billed as a “podcast for smart people who like dumb stuff”.

Its female audience range in age from 18 to 34 but the core group is around the same age as the 26-year-old founders — from 24-28, mostly with university degrees, living in the metro areas of Melbourne and Sydney and to a lesser extent Brisbane, and as keen to hear an interview with Julia Gillard as one with a former Bachelorette.

It’s a group the founders say is ignored by mainstream media which often dumbs down content in search of the demographic.

“Zara and I, when we think about content, think of a mix of high brow and low brow content,” says Andrews. “We love having a chat with Julia Gillard as much as we love having a chat with a reality TV person. We really adore social justice issues, the environment. But there is no snobbishness in the conversation.”

A relaxed Gillard was one of the biggest gets for Shameless but perhaps even bigger was Jameela Jamil, the actor and activist who has three million followers on social media and stars in the fantasy comedy series The Good Place. She’s a huge celebrity for the Shameless audience who are keenly engaged in social issues such as the “medical misinformation” behind anti-vax campaigns. Gender is also a big focus but the duo say it’s taken for granted that the world will be seen through a feminist lens.

McDonald and Andrews met working at Mamamia and branched out three years ago.

The COVID lockdown prompted them to set up a virtual book club for their followers.

And last week the founders launched their own book, The Space Between (Viking, $32.99) billed as a book to help you navigate your twenties. It covers everything from ambition and friendship, to managing your career if you are a woman with strong opinions.

Their advice to mainstream media hunting young women?

Says McDonald: “First, take them seriously. I never felt I was taken seriously by mainstream media targeting content at us. They thought my interest in reality TV meant I was taking it literally, whereas I am looking at these things because I wanted to unpack why those things were popular and how they fitted into the Zeitgeist.”

Says Andrews: “If you are not the demographic, try not to make decisions for people in their 20s. I have no idea what a mother of three wants to read or someone in their 50s.”