Employer factionalism not for the independent Patricia Karvelas

RN Drivehost Patricia Karvelas on the reality of working for the ABC, the greatest threat to journalism and becoming an orphan at 8 | LISTEN

ABC radio and TV presenter Patricia Karvelas: ‘I see myself as not a creature of any organisation but as a strong independent journalist.’ Picture: Aaron Francis.

The interview takes place in a noisy cafe bang in the middle of what we joke is the demilitarised zone between ABC’s Melbourne headquarters and News Corp’s Herald and Weekly Times building, and towards the end of it, RN Drive host Patricia Karvelas sums up her journalistic mission with typical forthrightness.

“I don’t want to take over the world,” she tells The Australian’s Behind the Media podcast. “I want to do my stuff well, I want to do good stories and I want people to enjoy it.”

Karvelas, slight in stature but not in personality, has traversed the gulf between public broadcaster and commercial giant. After studying at RMIT and stints at ABC and SBS radio, she won a cadetship at The Australian in the 1990s a few years after this writer but rose far more swiftly to ­become a political correspondent in Canberra and then Melbourne editor before joining the ABC four years ago to host RN Drive, taking over from Waleed Aly.

Karvelas, who shares her considered views in an entertaining way and follows up with forceful text messages, has strong views on what she calls “employer factionalism” in the industry.

She wants it stopped. “It’s a huge problem.

“So firstly I see myself as not a creature of any organisation but as a strong independent journalist. I said ‘stop the factionalism’ because I feel like a lot of this ­factionalism is from the leadership level. ‘You’re either with us or against us, wherever you are.’ And I think that it’s dangerous to journalism.”

Karvelas is a rare journalistic entity. A year after joining RN, Sky News recruited her to front a Sunday night interview program, an unheard-of state of ­affairs that had to be approved by then ABC managing director Mark Scott. This year she left Sky and launched National Wrap on the ABC News Channel and also hosts the political podcast The Party Room with colleague Fran Kelly.

“I’ve been at the ABC now for four years but I’m still constantly trolled, and I mean really trolled, about being some sort of robot from some sort of factory,” she says, noting there are cultural differences that lead to myths forming about both organisations.

“I’ll give you one of the myths — that ABC journalists are really over-resourced and lazy. It’s the biggest crock I’ve ever seen.”

When she became a presenter, Karvelas discovered a nasty surprise that broadcast journalists experience in a way most print journalists don’t.

“The hardest part of my job for me personally has been the trolling, the threats, the abuse. My first year doing this job, I found it really difficult.”

ABC Melbourne Drive presenter Rafael Epstein, among ­others, was a great support.

“Well, Raf’s advice was often to switch it off, which is so obvious. For me it’s about arming myself with knowledge, whereas his point was, ‘Report, but don’t look at it, ­because it’s stuck in your mind.’ It’s in your sleep, it’s in every part of your life, you’re jumpy when you’re walking down the street with your kids. This is not a way to live.

“This is actually really common for presenters; it’s just I was a new presenter so it wasn’t common for me.”

Karvelas wanted to be a journalist from Year 7 when she ­edited the student newspaper. Did she have journalists in her family? She responds with a sharp: “Hilarious!

“Well, my parents were immigrants to this country, very working class. My mother worked in a factory. There was no journalism in my family. What there was, though, was an absolute love of learning and of reading.”

There was a lot of newspaper reading, of the Greek newspaper Neos Kosmos, and the news was always on. “But there was nobody who had any connections, let me tell you. I realised that there is another way, which is called hard work.”

Karvelas’s older sister and her grandmother largely raised her. “My parents died when I was eight and I was basically ­collectively raised in a large Greek family (and we) moved around a lot.

“My grandmother was illiterate and raised me. Illiterate ­because she wasn’t allowed to go to school, they were so poor. So when your ­illiterate grandmother raises you but tells you about the value of education and only in Australia can you do this — it’s that level of ­indoctrination.”

Karvelas has a female partner and two children, aged eight and six. How does she combine ­journalism with motherhood? “We’ve been together for 12 years, we have a pretty resilient relationship. It’s the best thing that’s ever happened in my life, it provides me a lot of sta­bility, as does my family.”

Her partner is a teacher and artist. “I hate this wanky language but … there’s often a lead parent who takes a leadership role in parenting, and that is her role and she is very good at it.”

Time to tackle a meaty topic. Did reporting on the postal survey on same-sex marriage make her feel gayer?

“Nah, I’m about the same level of gay most days, actually. I mostly feel just like a tired mum. I wish I felt gayer. I don’t go to the Mardi Gras like I used to, put it that way, mate. Do you still go?” I answer yes.

Karvelas is, she says, a bit compartmentalised on such ­issues. Professionally, she supported the ABC policy of being fair to all sides. “I know a lot of gay people struggled with that.

“Let me tell you what hurt me the most. I had many messages from gay people saying, ‘I love your show but I can’t listen during this period because of some of the people you have on and the things that they’re saying’.”

So what about other compartments? “Well, I am gay, as you know, and so are you. And so are a lot of people. Actually, I mean it’s just one of my many identities. I don’t really do identity politics but I’ve got a few others.” She lists them: child of ­migrants, female, proud Melburnian, lover of politics, mother.

“As a journalist, I was really comfortable with being able to provide that debate in a fair and balanced way.”

Some found the debate rancorous but on November 15 it was announced that voters were overwhelmingly in favour of legalising gay marriage and parliament legalised it soon ­afterwards.

Sometimes Karvelas found comments about gay people’s right to be parents “jarring, ­because that’s not how I see my children”. “But, equally, they can say it, and people can make up their own minds. And, guess what, Stephen, they really did!”