Q&A recap: Gillian Triggs hits out at Scott Morrison over Bourke Street comments

Gillian Triggs has criticised the PM’s comment that there can be no mental health excuse for a terrorist in the wake of the Bourke Street terror attack.

Last night's panel on the ABC's Q&A.

Gillian Triggs has criticised Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s comment that there can be no mental health excuse for a terrorist in the wake of the Bourke Street terror attack.

On last night’s episode of Q&A, the former president of Australian Human Rights Commission argued that the bigger issue is how we deal with terrorism and radicalisation in the community.

“I think that’s a most unhelpful approach … In so many of these instances of terrorist acts in Australia, designed to terrorise, they’ve been by people with profound mental disturbance and/or drug abuse, substance abuse of one kind or another. And to ignore that reality is very foolish indeed.”

“Most importantly we need more support for those with mental illness … I think to ignore this phenomenon of mental illness fuelled by drug abuse, and to say it’s purely an ideological terrorist attack, is a very unhelpful comment because it diverts us from those kinds of inquiries that we need to make,” Ms Triggs said.

Terrorism was discussed at length by Ms Triggs and her fellow panellists — former deputy prime minister John Anderson, Assistant Minister for Treasury and Finance Zed Seselja, Labor Treasury spokesman Chris Bowen, and communications consultant Parnell McGuinness — in light of last week’s attack in Melbourne.

Mr Anderson called for more internet regulations to curb terrorism.

“How do we find the light handed but powerful enough regulatory influence to try and get the balance right … so we can make this rudimentary public square … work to build co-operation and build trust, and starve those of ill intent of oxygen?” Mr Anderson asked on last night’s panel.

“There is no doubt there is an obligation on platform providers to show social responsibility, and whether you call it censorship there’s no doubt about that … and there is no doubt there is a role of government as well,” Mr Bowen said.

“Our intelligence agencies have a good deal of work tracking that. It’s like a needle in a haystack,” Mr Bowen continued, speaking on how terrorism should be dealt with.

Refugees

The panel turned to the issue of refugees, and the government’s proposed bill to move those refugees to New Zealand, on the condition that they can never return to Australia, an issue Ms Triggs called “Sophie’s choice”.

“This is a wicked problem,” Ms Triggs said.

“We have a government holding the lives of these children and these families to ransom in order to get legislation through,” Ms Triggs continued.

How does @GillianTriggs balance her moral code while supporting the Government’s latest plan for refugees? #QandA pic.twitter.com/3njWDKaMOs

— ABC Q&A (@QandA) November 12, 2018

Mr Bowen maintained his dislike for the bill.

“We have said, firstly we don’t like that bill, that legislation one little bit … but to get it done we would support it if it only applied to New Zealand.”

Labor’s Treasury spokesman went on to criticise the government: “There is no link between the legislation and accepting the New Zealand offer (to take the refugees). But (the government has) made the link and we accept that. That’s the world we live in.”

.@Bowenchris say Labor supports moving children off Nauru, to New Zealand. Would @ZedSeselja support that legislation? #QandA pic.twitter.com/jC0YXvBnkh

— ABC Q&A (@QandA) November 12, 2018

Ms McGuiness accused Mr Bowen of hypocrisy on the issue of refugees.

“It really cuts me to the quick that there are children on Nauru … Chris, in your book, you wrote about … how hard it was to see that children had died in the process of being brought to Australia … And that could never happen again.

“And yet over the last five years all we have seen is the Labor Party saying that it’s the government’s rigorous policy which is at fault.”

Mr Bowen defended himself and the Labor Party, saying that Ms McGuiness’s argument had no basis.

“We shouldn’t be arguing about this. The New Zealand offer should be accepted … to get it done and put this issue behind us.”

Scott Morrison

Scott Morrison took the brunt of the heat on the panel, after a question from the audience prompted a discussion on whether he could ever gain back the trust of the voters.

Mr Anderson pointed to a wider problem of distrust: “The research … shows that the level of distrust in the system generally but particularly in politicians and government in Australia is at record high level.”

What does Scott Morrison need to do to regain the trust of Liberal voters? #QandA pic.twitter.com/Zk3OBDuZYl

— ABC Q&A (@QandA) November 12, 2018

The former deputy PM continued that politicians were focusing on smaller domestic issues, when they should be more concerned about foreign policy.

“I have never know a time when we seem so intent upon flogging ourselves to death over domestic issues like a bunch of dogs having a brawl when there’s several 800-pound gorillas coming over the horizon.” Mr Anderson said.

“There will be another economic downturn … A lot of European countries ended up in an economic mess. It’s had remarkably little attention.” He continued, urging politicians to focus on the bigger picture.

Ms Triggs, on the other hand, argued that politicians are underestimating Australians: “I think at the moment this sort of bizarre environment of different baseball caps and pretending to be eating meat pies, I think Australians are simply underestimated by too many of our political leaders.”

Senator Seselja defend the prime minister, saying he can win back trust, despite the Liberal Party’s most recent slide in the polls.

“You’ve got polls in Queensland showing a recovery … Scott Morrison has been on the ground, electorate by electorate, community by community.”

Sexual harassment

The panel also grappled with the issue of sexual assault and harassment, and how finer lines needed to be drawn.

“If you speak up, women tend to be victimised, twice at least, they suffer all sorts of problems” Ms Triggs said. “Once you bring it into the public arena, you almost always lose your ability to settle the matter and women almost always come out second or third best,”

“I want to … raise the other points that to make allegations in the public arena … one of my concerns as a lawyer is far too many men have no ability to defend themselves, they’re simply resigning and using the tool of defamation to come back against the woman.” Ms Triggs continued.

Mr Bowen agreed with Ms Triggs, and asked “Where is the line?”

“The views of the women involved must be respected and protected if she doesn’t’ want it taken further publicly. That is the key fundamental point.” Mr Bowen said.

.@ZedSeselja, @Bowenchris and John Anderson on how we navigation #MeToo allegations #QandA pic.twitter.com/ZvAqSOLTq1

— ABC Q&A (@QandA) November 12, 2018

Mark Latham

Mark Latham took a hit at the end the program, over a discussion of him rejoining politics as a member of Pauline Hanson’s One Nation party, and how that might further polarise political debate.

“Well he’s tried out almost every other party in Australia so far, and they haven’t fit. So let’s see how it goes with this,” Ms McGuinness quipped.

“I’m more concerned about whipping people up in to extreme populist positions which I don’t think is helpful at all,” she said.

Mr Anderson was given a spectacular round of applause when he circled back to the idea of trust in politics, and called for respect, even in disagreement.

“Many notorious characters in our history, the greats, disagreed vehemently on things and enjoyed doing it and came away respecting one another … We have got to learn to respect one another’s dignity and place as fellow Australians, the genius of freedom lies in our ability to disagree but not hate.”