Our Flag Means Death: Flight of the Conchords ... on a pirate ship

Rhys Darby is the world’s most hopeless pirate until Taika Waititi’s Blackbeard takes him under his wing.

Rhys Darby in Our Flag Means Death.

New Zealanders Rhys Darby and Taika Waititi have worked together on comedies such as Flight of the Conchords and What We Do in the Shadows. Waititi, who for his 2019 film Jojo Rabbit won an Oscar, a Bafta and a Grammy, has also directed two Thor movies, while Darby has starred in two Jumanjis. Their latest collaboration is Our Flag Means Death (Binge), based on the life of Stede Bonnet, an 18th-century aristocrat who went looking for adventure on the high seas. As played by Darby, he’s the world’s most hopeless pirate – until Blackbeard (Waititi) takes him under his wing. The long-time friends speak with Review about making a workplace comedy set on a pirate ship.

How did the two of you meet?

Taika: We were both on the stand-up circuit. And Jemaine (Clement) and I were doing a little duo, a comedy duo.

Rhys: I was in a duo as well. Duos were very popular in the early 2000s. Because, you know, you’ve got a few jokes, but if you add another guy, you’ve got twice as many.

Taika: Yeah.

Rhys: Some people jumped into trios … that was just pushing it.

Taika: We’ve known each other for about 26 years.

Bret McKenzie as Bret, Rhys Darby as Murray, and Jemaine Clement as Jemaine in Flight Of The Conchords.

You’re both writers yourselves, but Our Flag Means Death was created by the American screenwriter David Jenkins. I hadn’t heard of him before this.

Taika: I’d never heard of David Jenkins either. I’m sure you hadn’t even heard of David Jenkins, Rhys?

Rhys: Who the hell’s heard of David Jenkins?

Taika: No one knows who David Jenkins is, but he just came out of nowhere with this f--king brilliant script. And Dave and I worked on the idea of the show together, on the tone. I felt it should focus on the mundanity of being a pirate. You know, don’t put any adventurous stuff in there. What do pirates do in their downtime? That’s what I want to see – just how boring it can be on a boat. Then he went off and wrote this thing and he wanted Rhys. And then I directed the pilot. Now we’re going to win, like, f--king 400 Emmys.

Rhys, you joined the army after high school. So the boredom of that regimented life must have been easy to play.

Rhys: Very relatable for me, yeah. There’s a famous saying: 80 per cent of army life is waiting for a war to happen. And that time is hilarious, because of course there’s training, but you can’t train every goddamn day. So there’s a lot of downtime. And this is where I got into trouble back in my military days, because I just got bored. So I would do impressions of people, and use comedy to get through the day, make people laugh. And unfortunately, not many people in the military have a great sense of humour. So I got in the shit a bit. And eventually I left because I realised I wasn’t quite, er, suited.

Taika Waititi as Blackbeard.

You play a real historical figure. How much are you riffing on the true story? Or is it completely fictionalised?

Rhys: We’re cutting corners and we’re adding extra characters. But the base of it is real. This wealthy man decided to leave his wife and kids, and build a pirate ship, and hire a crew. He took all his fancy clothes and hit the high seas with a bunch of people he didn’t know and nearly died many times. And then ran into Blackbeard and they hung out and more craziness happens. So we can go anywhere from there, because there are so many holes in the story.

Taika: The fact that no one knows anything about Blackbeard is the best part. No one knows shit about him. It gives you the freedom to just make up whatever you want.

So no intense research process then?

Taika: I went on to the internet. I went to Wikipedia; too many words. And then I saw one picture of him and thought, I’m not going to look like that. And then we just changed it.

Is this the two of you living out some childhood desire to be a pirate?

Taika: No. Pirates were a dumb novelty thing when I was growing up. You put a patch on, put a dumb scar on your face and a little bit of charcoal for a beard, and went around the neighbourhood asking for candy …

Rhys: Pirates weren’t big in New Zealand, I don’t think.

Taika: They weren’t cool, and they’re still not cool!

Rhys, as the lead, were you involved in shaping the script with Taika and David?

Rhys: No, it’s usually my job just to change the script on the day. I didn’t do any of the writing. I had a lot of words to do as the lead. I’ve never seen so many words. So I said, let me cut some of these down. Some of the American vernacular didn’t suit me. I adjusted a few things. Just to make things funnier.

Where did you shoot the series?

Taika: We shot in Los Angeles at the Warner Brothers lot. Coming here as a younger filmmaker, you think, wow, the Warner Brothers lot. And then you go and it’s these shitty little sets: some crappy New York apartment and some fake garden from these terrible sitcoms. And then you come on to our stage, and I was like, that’s what it’s about: there’s a f--king pirate ship! And it’s on a gimbal and it’s moving, and there are guys from the art department with little bits of fishing line pulling things so that the chandeliers move. It’s like the ultimate theatre production. And behind the ship was the big LED wall which had the ocean projected on it. And the ocean was moving, so you get on the boat and the illusion was completely believable. There’s a scene in the first episode with all the British sailors lining up; a couple of them had to be removed – they were getting seasick.

Rhys Darby, left, in his first series lead role.

You’ve got some heavy hitters in the cast. Rory Kinnear, Leslie Jones. How involved are you guys in casting? Do you just call up the people you want?

Rhys: Pretty much.

Taika: That’s usually how it works now because we’re bigshots. But that was mainly David Jenkins. You remember him.

Rhys, this is your first series lead. Are you keen to play more main roles?

Rhys: Yeah, it was definitely about time I did that. I’ve done a couple of lead roles in some little indie films that no one’s seen. They’re always good practice. But this made sense to me because I get to play-act with a whole bunch of people. And I’m in a role that’s definitely within my boundaries. It’s my schtick and I’ve just got to keep it up. In fact, I don’t think I’ll take small roles anymore. So that might be the end of my career. Taika will want me for his next thing and I’ll be like, is it small? I can’t do that now.

Taika: Can’t do that now.

Rhys: He’ll just give me a massive role and then cut it right down.

Taika, were you always going to be acting in the show?

Taika: No. I was really just going to direct the pilot. Then David revealed the rest of the story to me and said that he had written Blackbeard with me in mind. There was a chance I couldn’t do it because of schedules. I was doing Thor in Australia, actually, all the way through prep. But luckily they did some juggling. It was pretty crazy on set; I was dressed as Blackbeard on Zooms for other projects in my trailer. It was the weirdest thing, but I made it work. And I’m really glad I did, because I would have been so bummed to have missed out on playing this character, because it’s one of my favourite things I’ve done.

That’s ironic, given the show is partly about a certain job dissatisfaction. Some of your other work has tackled the same thing. Are you trying to tell us something?

Taika: Trying to spread the word: get out of your comfort zone. Whatever you’re doing, drop it and just leave and go become a pirate. Pretty much all my stuff is about families. About people trying to fit in, or trying to find a family. And this is no different really – it’s about a guy who didn’t feel like he belonged where he was.

Taika Waititi poses with his Oscar for Best Adapted Screenplay for Jojo Rabbit in 2020. Picture: AFP

Do you both feel you belong over in Los Angeles now?

Rhys: Yeah, definitely. It’s a melting pot here of dreamers and lovers. And I think that’s where I’m suited. You can create anything here and the whole world will see it. It’s just easy, and the industry is so huge. At one point I thought I would go back home to New Zealand and buy an apartment and hang out there and eat some pies. And I did that for a while. But I’ve got so much ambition, and I felt like I needed to be part of the world more. New Zealand is still the greatest country, but I just feel at home here. And I think this is where I should be.

Taika: You’re a dreamer. I’m a lover. And so we go well together. It’s why we love this town.

Taika, you have Thor: Love and Thunder coming out in July. But your next collaboration with Rhys is on Next Goal Wins, about American Samoa trying to qualify for the FIFA World Cup. I’ve been hearing about that film for years.

Taika: Try being me, mate. We made it 2½ years ago. That’s coming out later this year. It’s nearly finished.

Rhys: Woo hoo!

Taika: Rhys is in that. Small part.

Rhys: You said it was a massive part!?

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Our Flag Means Death premieres on Binge on March 3.