Saoirse Ronan made men squirm. So did I … and that’s part of the problem

If I told you a bloke was fiddling the books in your company, you’d be on it in a shot. But that’s not what happens when you tell bosses one of their employees is fiddling with women.

I’ve had countless awkward moments in the past two weeks. Yes, that moment when you bring up the one thing no one wants to talk about.

“Am I right, ladies?” Saoirse Ronan on The Graham Norton Show. Credit:

Good to know I’m not alone in the awkward department. Magnificent actor Saoirse Ronan was on The Graham Norton Show last week to promote her latest movie, Blitz. The conversation turned to the way actor Eddie Redmayne used a phone in self-defence during filming. Colleague Paul Mescal made a “joke” in response. “Who is actually going to think about that? If someone actually attacked me, I’m not going to go ‘phone’,” he chuckled.

Men laughed but Ronan instantly replied: “That’s what girls have to think about all the time … am I right, ladies?”

So awkward. But over the past few weeks I’ve been conducting an awkward experiment of my own. I’ve been talking to blokes about how to stop sexual harassment at work.

Here are some of the replies. “I’ve never seen it happen.” “The men I know are not like that.” “All of my friends are good blokes.” “It’s exaggerated.” “Not all men.”

I’m not very good at letting things slide, so I pushed a little. Hey, you know that’s just not possible – the figures tell us you work in offices where this happens. To slightly misquote Nobel Prize-winner Daniel Kahneman, the world in your head is not a precise replica of reality.

I’m on this mission to find out how men can be better allies because men do not appear to be good at working this out for themselves. How do we know this? There were dozens of men who sat by and knew that Harvey Weinstein was doing the wrong thing (and, by the way, Donald Trump, Weinstein was schlonged as hard as he could be schlonged because he was horrific). Who sat by and watched Darren Wick at work? Who could see the way WiseTech’s Richard White treated some women and not others? Who knew what was going on at Super Retail and did nothing? And what about the loads of men who work in hospitality? How bloody brave of James Henderson, just 21, to take action about what he saw at Merivale (which, by the way, has venues in both NSW and Victoria).

I went further. I spoke to blokes who’d been told a colleague was sexually harassing (or worse) and then did nothing about it. Yes, these conversations are worse than awkward. But we must have them. I’d prefer it if men had these conversations among themselves because I don’t wish to be their emotional handmaiden, neither mother nor wife. But the evidence so far is that they are not really having these conversations unless HR makes them. Even then, it’s fingers in ears going la-la-la.

What about those who were warned and didn’t act? What did they say?

Here are some of their answers. “Couldn’t prove it.” “Had no evidence.” “The victim(s) didn’t complain.” “It was going to take too much time with no results.”

It also turns out, according to new data from Our Watch, 40 per cent of workplace leaders aren’t aware of new legal obligations to prevent workplace sexual harassment, and only 76 per cent know workplace sexual harassment is illegal. Sure, illegal for 40 years, but why would you bother to know since your key responsibility is to the people you employ?

So, with these disappointing results, I asked one man in Australia who has worked on getting bystanders to do and say something. Meet Griffith University’s Patrick O’Leary, professor in the ARC Centre of Excellence for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. Why are men so useless at standing up for women?

“It’s not unusual for them to be in a state of denial and to push the issue away,” he said. “Part of the challenge is this: we really need to be engaging men. We know they are part of the problem but we also need to engage them as part of the solution.”

Oh God, I think to myself. He’s one of the “not all men” crew. But no.

“You can say ‘not all men’ but then not all men stand against this or take responsibility for their actions,” says O’Leary.

This is what we would love them to do. Of course, not all men are equal and, as O’Leary points out, we need to acknowledge that different men have different access to power. We need to license men to act. We need to license women to act. That’s tougher than you think.

Which brings me to the role of company directors in publicly listed companies. I wanted to speak to someone at the Australian Institute of Company Directors about how their members might do a better job. No one was available to answer my questions but I did get sent a link that basically said: “An overwhelming majority of directors believe preventing sexual harassment is a high-priority issue for their boards.” Duh. Shame some of them aren’t doing a better job of executing that prevention.

One bloke had a fantastic story about what happened when he and others complained about a colleague. There were so many complaints, the employer acted, and the perpetrator lost his job. The less-than-fantastic outcome is that everyone signed non-disclosure agreements – and the perp got a new job in a new place and is back to his old tricks.

Can you teach old dogs new tricks? Only if we all turn into tutors at work – a whole other challenge. Maybe it’s only my conversations that end up in awkward silences. I doubt that.

Jenna Price is a visiting fellow at the Australian National University and a regular columnist.

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