‘Found out very quickly’: Reality stars-turned-podcasters feud over million-dollar gold mine

There’s fame, fortune and feuds. This is the million-dollar world of Aussie podcasters. James Weir turns up the volume.

A former reality star who parlayed her TV appearance into a lucrative podcasting career is sipping champagne and telling a group of women in their 20s how she learnt the importance of being a “girl boss” by opening a call centre in Asia where she could employ hard working, cheap staff.

“Up at sunrise, home at dawn, no questions asked – and they’re getting paid not a lot compared to what we were getting paid,” Ella Ding, 30, says as she traces her path from door-to-door energy saleswoman and Married At First Sight bride to accidental broadcaster with 140,000 monthly listeners.

“So I really respected their work ethic. ... I’m big with the hustle culture.”

It’s clumsy statements like this that have sparked a firestorm of controversy around her podcast, Sit With Us, which she co-hosts with her reality co-star Domenica Calarco, who is currently in a mental health ward (she has since checked out) following the pair’s most recent bout of backlash.

Their show makes up a trifecta of podcasts fronted by former TV contestants who have entered the audio space with episodes that swing from candid sex confessions to unfiltered thought-dumping. Two of these podcasts have even been criticised for what some outraged listeners and experts have dubbed harmful misinformation.

There’s fame, fortune and feuds – often between the hosts themselves.

“It’s a sh*t-show,” one radio exec describes the genre of reality star-turned yak-back host.

Reality stars who have pivoted to podcasting are raking it in.

Blaring out one speaker is the Sit With Us ladies, who are still battling a storm of abuse following last month’s episode with one-time MAFS husband Jack Dunkley that led to them being labelled “fake feminists”.

In another: It’s A Lot, hosted by former star of The Bachelor Abbie Chatfield, who led the charge on the criticism against the Sit With Us duo’s most recent misstep.

Drowning out both shows is Life Uncut, fronted by The Bachelor alums Laura Byrne and Brittany Hockley, which had more than 392,000 listens last month – a figure that, according to industry body Triton Digital, jumped more than 13,000 after the podcast’s own medical misinformation scandal that went global.

“They’re worth a load of money,” says Simon Baggs, a former content executive who has worked at ACast and Southern Cross Austereo, two of the major podcast networks in Australia.

He says some of these hosts can pocket between $1.8 and $2 million dollars annually from ad revenue alone. Then there’s the additional cash from live national tours, brand deals, merch and bonus content for paid subscribers.

With a combined 759,376 listens in Australia last month recorded by Triton Digital, the hosts have seemingly become the equivalent of AM talkback jocks for the modern-day woman who has a disposable income to burn. Instead of advertisements for utes and funeral homes, they’re hocking seltzers and sex toys between segments that platform polarising opinions.

“The networks have no power over them,” says Baggs. “The networks have to beg and plead with them to stay. The tables have turned.”

One insider says the Life Uncut ladies are on a deal with the Australian Radio Network and iHeart valued at close to $1.8 million dollars annually to produce their podcast and syndicated KIIS radio show. On a recent episode, it was revealed Brittany is the “breadwinner” in her relationship – earning more than her professional footballer fiance, Benjamin Siegrist, who makes a rumoured $28,000 a week.

Another radio exec recalls a period when Dom and Ella’s Sit With Us podcast was netting the two hosts up to $70,000 in a single month.

Aussie podcasters are making bank.

The market for opinionated millennial chicks with a microphone is a gold mine that can quickly become a minefield.

“A lot of the podcasts these influencers do should just be a phone call,” says Megan Pustetto, a journalist who launched the online gossip empire So Dramatic! that regularly reports on the scandals engulfing these women.

She says the hosts, who are listened to by “impressionable young women who idolise them”, are not always qualified to speak about the topics they address in their podcasts.

Back at the #GirlBoss event, Ella is on stage, doling out wisdom.

“High school was not for me. I struggled to learn,” she tells the group of young women, who have gathered to hear her talk at Chin Chin, a hot restaurant in Sydney with fluoro pink accent lighting.

She’s being paid as a “keynote speaker” at a series of get-togethers by fast fashion internet retailer PrettyLittleThing. The women in the crowd, described by one attendee as “corporate girlies”, are swathed in oversized blazers. They paid $40 to hear Ella’s advice. When she compares cheap labour to hustle culture, one of the ladies even writes it down in the notes app on her phone while a nearby waiter circulates a tray of lukewarm spring rolls.

“Their fans are so infatuated with these reality stars that they will blindly follow them off a cliff,” says Pustetto. “They defend them regardless of what they say because they have rose-coloured glasses on. It’s like that cool-girl mentality, they want to be their friend or they want to be closer to them or even be them. It’s weird.”

When Ella hops down off the stage, one of the fans excitedly flits over.

“I’m obsessed with you,” the young woman gushes.

If she’s angry about the latest controversy that swamped Ella and Dom just a few weeks ago, it doesn’t show.

They hug.

After the fan bounces away, Ella leans in close.

“I love Joe Rogan,” she declares of the controversial podcaster who has been criticised for hosting far-right guests, spreading Covid-19 misinformation and making sexist and racist remarks. “I listen to podcasts that a lot of these women wouldn’t listen to. He gets people on to talk about things that are very controversial that lots of people don’t agree with. That’s what podcasting is!”

One radio exec recalls a month where Dom and Ella made $70,000.

In a backwards way, she seems to be defending her own podcast’s latest calamity – the one that blew up just before co-host Dom entered a mental health ward.

The pair interviewed Jack Dunkley, one of the scandalous husbands from this year’s season of Married At First Sight who made headlines for his behaviour towards his partner and instructing another bloke to “muzzle” his wife. Dom and Ella were criticised, with some listeners accusing the pair of “platforming misogyny”.

Rival podcaster Abbie Chatfield, who had more than 270,000 listeners tuning in to her own show in May, publicly condemned the Sit With Us hosts and labelled them “fake feminists” – something she has also done to the Life Uncut ladies over various disagreements.

Questioned about the accusations of misogyny and medical misinformation, Ella says she doesn’t listen to Abbie’s podcast or look at news websites.

“ … I wouldn’t have a clue,” she says. “I don’t read anything online …”

So Dramatic’s Megan Pustetto gives a rundown of the metaverse and the arguments within it – an explanation that would be more helpful if it involved one of those conspiracy pin boards with all the red string that detectives use in thriller movies.

“Abbie was chummy with Dom and Ella and even went on their podcast last year where the three of them criticised Brittany for slut-shaming Abbie on The Kyle & Jackie O Show and slammed her for not supporting other women,” she says. “But it’s funny because, less than a year later, Abbie is now calling out Dom and Ella for doing the exact same thing in their Jack interview. What makes it even weirder is that Dom is now apparently chummy with Brittany. It’s a head spin.”

After Brittany was battered by the slut-shaming storm, she released a statement online apologising for “the undercurrent (of) misogynistic tones” in the radio segment that kickstarted the drama and blamed the fast-paced nature of live broadcast.

Abbie responded, accusing Brittany of “internalised misogyny” before suggesting live radio “maybe isn’t for you”.

Pustetto says there’s a running theme to most of the feuds.

“You know that Spider-Man meme where they’re all pointing at each other? That’s these reality star podcasters. And they’re all accusing each other of not being a real feminist.”

The fighting has taken a toll. Dom pressed pause on the pod to rest. Ella says there have been times where she has thought about ending the show entirely.

“Unfortunately I don’t see a lot of women supporting women,” she tells news.com.au. “People are willing to destroy you to get listens.”

‘You know that Spider-Man meme where they’re all pointing at each other? That’s these podcasters. They’re all accusing each other of not being a real feminist,’ says Pustetto.

As the wave of criticism continued to gather steam online after the Jack interview, Dom and Ella doubled down. Then they backflipped and released an apology episode, which copped more flak.

The furore led to one of the podcast’s biggest months, with more than 140,000 listeners – up from an average of about 50,000.

“Listeners are interesting. You have to do an awful lot to push away a loyal listener and make them unfollow you,” says Del Fordham, a podcasting boss who has worked at many of the major networks.

Ella says she resents the edit she received as a contestant on reality TV – with conversations nixed and sound bites cropped. Her podcast is very different.

“It’s great because there’s hardly any editing,” she says of the episodes they publish. “We don’t really cut out anything in our podcast. … We are really just jumping on the mic with no filters.”

It’s this no-holds-barred approach that has landed them, and their rivals, in hot water.

“I always tell talent: You never put to air the raw audio you recorded without an edit,” says Stephanie Coombes, the former content director at iHeart. “I think a lot of podcasts can do with a tougher edit.”

These millennial hosts are making hundreds of thousands of extra dollars from live tours and TV deals.

In an episode dedicated to practising gratitude, the Sit With Us duo copped scorn after Ella suggested positive thinking could help cure cancer. Last month, Life Uncut was called out for publishing an episode that blamed chemicals in tampons for causing the rare and life-threatening toxic shock syndrome. The episode was lambasted by a UK-based doctor in a viral video clip on social media. In response, the Life Uncut team edited the episode and the hosts released a statement correcting the medical inaccuracies.

A rep for the show says Life Uncut is a “reputable media publication” that takes “any medical misinformation extremely seriously” and is “dedicated wholeheartedly to championing women”.

“Long-form podcasting is where people get found out very quickly,” says industry expert Fordham.

“If you are broadcasting to a lot of very impressionable people who are looking for education, they listen to podcasts to be informed and you have a responsibility as a broadcaster to know what you’re talking about. And the challenge with podcasting is it’s very easy to start publishing without any disciplines around you.

“There’s real responsibility in that and it’s not something I think anyone should take lightly. If you’re producing one of these podcasts you’re probably making 44 episodes a calendar year. So, 44 episodes of a one-hour podcast – and they want it to be thought-provoking. But that’s hard to do week in and week out.”

The local market is being flooded with copycat podcasts hoping to emulate the chaotic swirl of success experienced by these hosts who got in early. And the money keeps flowing. All online audio advertising was up 21 per cent to $265.8 million in 2023, with that figure expected to increase this year. Women aged 25 to 39 continue to be one of the most lucrative audiences, up year-over-year from 52 per cent to 56 per cent according to numbers from Triton Digital.

Simon Baggs, who now runs The Audio College podcasting course and co-hosts Can We Be Real? with Meshel Laurie, says these millennial podcasters speak to “the demo all advertisers want”.

“(Female consumers) wanted this content 20 years ago, it just wasn’t delivered to them. In the past, program directors said listeners didn’t want two women whingeing.”

In response to all the criticism, Sit With Us co-host Dom tells news.com.au the show is a “wild ride” but she loves that “as women we have this platform to share our stories...in the most authentic way”.

Even with the complaints being cranked up to max volume, the controversies don’t seem to leave much damage. But neither do the scandals that plague traditional radio shows on the FM and AM dials.

“In the past, there were gatekeepers for radio and the platform was only available to old, straight, white men,” says Baggs. “The format has always been popular and access to a microphone is no longer limited.”

Right-wing talkback radio host Ray Hadley was a mouthy taxi driver who got plucked out from behind the steering wheel and plonked behind a microphone in the ’80s. So began a broadcasting career that made the host – and radio stations – millions of dollars. Who’s to say reality contestants can’t have their own place on the airwaves?

“I always said to my mum, I feel like I’m supposed to be doing something very big,” Ella tells the women at the #GirlBoss event.

“But I don’t know what it is. I just feel it in me.”

Facebook: @hellojamesweir