On air slip-up by Waleed Aly leads to row with union boss on The Project

An apparent garbled sentence by Waleed Aly led to a terse clash on The Project, with a guest accusing him of “diminishing” a death.

An on-air slip up by The Project host Waleed Aly led to a furious clash with a guest on the current affairs show on Monday night.

“I don’t know what world you live in,” construction union boss Dave Noonan told the presenter, accusing Aly of downplaying the death of young worker on a building site. Aly, in turn, said Noonan was “verballing” him.

Mr Noonan had come on the show to discuss a plan by Labor to strip back many of the powers of building industry watchdog the Australian Building and Construction Commission (ABCC).

Workplace relations minister Tony Burke said on Sunday that the ABCC’s powers would be pared back to the “bare legal minimum”. That could happen as soon as this week.

Labor has said the ABCC of being little more than a tool to target unions.

The Project's Waleed Aly tackled the scaling back of the building site watchdog. Picture: Channel 10.

The Coalition, which put the ABCC in place, has said it would reinstate the body.

National secretary of the Construction, Forestry, Maritime, Mining and Energy Union (CFMEU) Dave Noonan appeared on The Project and told the panel that an example of why the ABCC wasn’t fit for purpose was that the fine his union had received after a probe by the watchdog for staging a protest was similar to the fine levied at a construction firm after the death of a young worker, Christopher Cassaniti, at a Sydney construction site in 2020.

The building company never had to pay the $900,000 fine out of its own money as the amount was covered by insurance.

“We get these lurid allegations of someone swearing on a building site, saying the wrong thing, and (then there are) massive fines and prosecutions; but not one thing is done to try and improve the sort of appalling safety conditions that lead to the death of that young worker,” said Mr Noonan.

CFMEU boss Dave Noonan took umbrage at Aly saying ‘little suit’ in relation to legal proceedings over a worker’s death. Picture: Channel 10.

‘I don’t know what world you live in’

But the interview between Mr Noonan and Aly escalated into a row when the host apparently stumbled over his words when replying to the union boss.

Aly said the two issues were not necessarily “comparable” and that if a builder was negligent in a worker’s death that could be dealt with in “its own little suit”.

He then appeared to correct himself and say “civil suit”. Aly went on to state that in that case the fines for the builder could be in the millions of dollars.

“’Little civil suit?’” replied an angry Mr Noonan.

“We’re talking about the death of a young man Waleed. I don’t know what world you live in.

“In the world I live in, there are serious safety hazards, the most appalling safety circumstances, and I don’t think it’s appropriate to diminish it by calling it a ‘little civil suit’.

“Dave, you’re verballing me there,” said Aly.

“I’m happy to replay the tape,” replied Mr Noonan.

A building battle is brewing in Canberra. Both sides of politics preparing to go to war over the construction watchdog, which the government has in its sights. We chat with @DaveNoonanCFMEU, division secretary with the CFMMEU.#TheProjectTVpic.twitter.com/mhst0Vq2tr

— The Project (@theprojecttv) July 25, 2022

But Aly pushed back on the suggestion he had been trying to minimise workplace deaths.

“I’m not saying it’s a ‘little civil suit’ and so it doesn’t matter. I’m saying if you want to compare the way in which these things might result ultimately in fines, my point is they have different mechanisms that would result in different sorts of fines and to say they’re comparable, well, they may not be comparable.”

Eighteen year old Christopher Cassaniti died in 2019 when scaffolding collapsed on a construction site in Sydney.

Labor justifies scaling back watchdog

On Sunday, Mr Burke justified the scaling back of the ABCC by saying it had overreached.

“We will no longer be spending taxpayers’ money determining what sticker someone is allowed to put on their helmet, whether or not a safety sign has to be pulled down because it’s got a union logo in the bottom corner or what flag might be flying at a building site,” he said on the ABC’s Insiders program.

Mr Burke said much of the ABCC’s work could be done by other watchdogs, such as health and safety regulators and the Fair Work Ombudsman.

Workplace relations minister Tony Burke has said the ABCC could be scaled back this week. Picture: AAP Image/Lukas Coch.

Labor has been heavily critical of the ABCC, re-established by the Turnbull government in 2016, considering it to be politically motivated.

One of the cases pursued by the ABCC was the flying of the Eureka flag on a building site.

Shadow workplace minister Michaelia Cash has said a future Coalition Government would reinstate the ABCC’s powers.

On Monday she said “chaos” would ensue in the building industry given the speed at which the ABCC was being overhauled.

“Under the Coalition we restored the building regulator back in 2016, and what you have seen then is a decrease in working days lost and a decrease in the lawlessness that under Labor was wrecking the construction industry in Australia”.