‘It didn’t fall my way but I can’t help but feel proud . . . I just wanted the club to be in a better place’
Nathan Jones led Melbourne through its darkest hours, then missed its brighest when not selected to play in the Grand Final. But he’s at peace with that.
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HM: Was there ever any path other than sport for you?
NJ: To be honest, not really. I was just so attracted to it from a really young age. I was one of three boys, and essentially to burn our energy out, Mum and Dad just guided us down that path. Literally every night, all I can remember from a young age was going to something – swimming, athletics, footy, I did triathlons, surfing, skating and golf as well. We did so much as kids, always at the beach in the summer and playing footy on the weekends in winter.
HM: Active neighbourhood too?
NJ: We were fortunate as kids. We lived in a court in Mt Eliza. There were three boys in my house, three boys next door, then another two boys next door to them, and our houses backed onto a local primary school, so post school we would jump the fence to the school and use the basketball courts, the footy ground and all the amenities that were there. We had our own bell among the three houses that would ring each night to signal “come home for dinner and bed”.
HM: So do you think if you were an only child with elderly neighbours, you still would have been an AFL footballer – it’s that nature versus nurture argument?
NJ: I guess my parents would have probably guided us down that path anyway. Naturally I have a high amount of energy, like my personality and mind is very much on the go wanting to achieve things. I can’t sit around for too long; I want to be on the move and doing stuff and feeling like I’ve accomplished something. I think that would have just come naturally. It was really fostered from a young age because I was lucky by circumstance that’s where we lived. A real competitive sporting spirit was born from all those experiences in that court – the cricket, basketball, football, skating, anything, was turned into a competition and there had to be a winner.
HM: The Selwoods were the same against each other as brothers. You talked about little athletics – who was the better runner, Joel Selwood or Nathan Jones?
NJ: I reckon I had him covered a fair bit as a junior, but I can’t quite remember, there’s actually a photo somewhere – I don’t think either of us won – one of us was second and one of us third. It’s funny we had a little childhood rivalry in Little Aths and then our football careers started a year apart and went along in parallel, really.
HM: Both 300 gamers.
NJ: We were lucky. I always took great interest in him and we always kept in touch across our careers. It’s pretty funny when you look back: we were both playing in junior representative teams for Victoria, then running against each other in athletics, and we both go on to play over 300 games each. His career was just incredible, I have so much respect for him as a leader and competitor. What a fairy-tale finish for him last year.
HM: Two careers that were so similar but so different. Captains, faces of the club, both 300 gamers, both drafted within a year of each other, but you to the Demons and could have been anywhere, and he to Geelong and could have been anywhere.
NJ: That’s the luck of the draw. He went 7 in ’06 (draft). I was 12 in ’05. It’s all part of the game we play. You don’t really get a choice, particularly early on. I guess there’s different opportunities throughout your career. I think we both have similar values, hence why we spent one, so long playing and two, remained so loyal to the clubs that we were both drafted to. I was pretty fortunate in my first year. I caught the tail-end of the Daniher era, and all of the incredible Melbourne players that were part of that decade prior to me being there. It was unfortunate how that was all managed post ’07. We fell into a bit of a hole for the next six to seven years.
HM: Your seventh and eighth games were finals under Neale Daniher. Was there any sense in any way the club was about to go into a downward spiral, or did you think you’d just keep playing finals?
NJ: I was pinching myself in some way early on. Neale made me really earn my spot. I didn’t debut until round 16 because we were top four for most of that year. I might have got a Rising Star nomination in game three or four and then I played two AFL finals – the first final against the Saints, who I was a massive supporter of as a kid. Then I came home from Perth after we lost that second final to Freo and played in a VFL premiership the following week. The last three months of my first year of AFL footy was just incredible. It was certainly unforeseen at that point what was about to happen to the club. We struggled early in that following season of ’07, and Neale stepped away. Then for a multitude of different reasons, we just went horribly backwards for years.
HM: Describe Neale Daniher.
NJ: We’ve all been so lucky to witness publicly what he’s like. His footy team was a reflection of the person he is. Initially you knew him as the coach of the Demons, the Reverend. He was a hard task master, but so loved and respected by his playing group. It’s so obvious to see now, with how many of those guys from that decade before I arrived rallied around and supported him in his greatest challenge – we love him and have so much respect for him. I was the club’s first pick, so he put a little bit of time into me, but there was always this fine line between genuine care and driving you bloody hard to succeed.
HM: He was tough?
NJ: He was harsh, but fair. He had a great balance. He would nail me early days for kicking the ball into the man on the mark at training and just when I thought my career was going well in my first year, he would tell me that I need to get fitter and shed a few kilos and do this or that to become better. A lot of those discussions though with him, the standards that he set for me, became ingrained and set me on the path to achieve the level required to succeed in the game. The game owes you nothing. You’ve got to go out and earn it.
HM: And those football lessons become life lessons – life owes you nothing, go and earn everything you want.
NJ: Absolutely. The whole experience shapes you. Neale sets the example for everyone. He shared a little golden nugget with the playing group one day: “When all is said and done, more is said than done” – inspiring us to walk the walk, and not just talk. How he has handled his diagnosis is the true mark of the man. Halfway through my second season, he stepped away from the club. He put the club first. Very few do that. He’d been super successful through his coaching period. Not necessarily winning flags. They didn’t win a grand final, but I think they played finals eight out of the 10 years or something like that. He was a successful coach and much loved among the playing groups. He believed no one’s bigger than the club. I remember him acknowledging that. And now, he is coaching us all again. On selflessness, humility, drive, action, and what can be achieved if we work hard and do it together. He really lives what he says.
HM: He is a special man. You know you had 10 people coach you through your career? A couple of those were just a game here and there but so much upheaval after Neale left at one club.
NJ: We went to hell and took a while to come back. The first change or two, you believe those at the club and buy into that new message that was being sold and you try and build belief and confidence around that. Then there would be another series of failures, and you would have to buy back in again.
HM: Tiring?
NJ: It wears you down. In the early days you don’t really understand the inner workings and the politics of it all. As I progressed into the leadership group and then to become captain, I gained so much perspective context and experience. You become privy to the wider discussions, the club’s inner workings, and understanding the nuances of environment and culture and recognise the failings. This sport teaches you so many life lessons, and the experience that I had you wouldn’t have scripted it if you had a choice as a kid. But I can’t help being partly grateful for it because it’s shaped me into the person I am. It’s challenged me in so many ways and it’s also just exposed me on so many levels to different environments, to what works and what doesn’t and how people and teams lead, communicate and influence, and all of those kinds of things, and those will be lessons I carry with me for the rest of my life.
HM: What are your key takeaways?
NJ: Invest in your people to create the culture, connection and results you desire. For years, we just didn’t have alignment from the top down, board level all the way through to the playing group, whether that was within the footy department and their staff, or just across the entire club. We really lacked alignment and direction. All the learnings from experiencing the Peter Jackson era and the addition of Roosy, onto the succession with Goody, showed the sustainable progression you could make with the right people, and everyone aligned. It was just such a vastly different experience to what we’d done previously.
HM: Sustained success essentially just means repeating great decisions on people.
NJ: The people are everything; in a footy sense they are the club. I’ve sat back so many times in admiration of teams like Geelong and Richmond and Hawthorn, West Coast and Sydney early days, thinking how they could just year after year be so consistent and competitive. “Why the hell can’t we get it right?” It became clear with those lessons later in my career, when I was much more aware of everything, about just how important connection and role play and the value of the team and standards and behaviours, accountability and clarity are across the entire organisation. I went on my own journey as well with leadership as the club began to regroup. My style early days was black and white, and a lot of my personal feedback was “you lack empathy” and “you could put more time into the younger guys”, “you need to open up and be less intimidating”. That journey of personal development was really self-driven from that. I think unfortunately just because of the lack of senior players and experience that got ripped out of the club early days, a lot of our younger guys were learning on the fly. I was one of them.
HM: How is walking off the ground at Geelong having been beaten by 186 points for your spirit, your soul and your mental wellbeing?
NJ: We had a few of those. God it was tough. The thing I reflect on that hurts me most, through that period, was the turnover of so many good players and people. Because of such poor on-field success, and such a poor culture, I feel so many players and even staff were robbed of what could have been a truer AFL experience.
HM: I remember calling a game in which you guys were booed off the ground. I spoke to a player in the car park, and he said, “You don’t understand, I don’t even like going into my own coffee shop to get coffee. Every day is miserable.”
NJ: It was. I’d be embarrassed to go out at night and be seen outside after playing footy, and so bitterly disappointed and humiliated about how poor we were. It was almost fear to be out in public after those losses. It was just so devastating. It’s not what I wanted to stand for. To play in a team that lacked spirit and was getting flogged week in week out, and we were a shell of what an AFL team and club should be and look like. It certainly wasn’t as you’d imagined it would be growing up!
HM: What was supposed to be boyhood dreams were anything but.
NJ: Nightmares. I still remember being talked about in the media as “completely irrelevant”. And we were to an extent. We just lacked so much respect. It was pretty tough to live through that period. Through personal pride, those experiences partly motivated me. I viewed it like that because I wanted to be a part of the change, and that inspired me to push on. But there were so many lost careers because of it all. I’m lucky though as there’s so many guys where that experience was all they knew, that was their AFL career, and when you think about that, it’s bloody rough.
HM: Sliding doors stuff.
NJ: How many guys could have potentially had successful careers in a stronger club with a much better culture where they had clarity, were nurtured and challenged with a focus on elite development. It may have been very different for some.
HM: It’s amazing when you describe it like that. Outstanding footballers just happen to end up at Melbourne through the draft and fall out of the game they love, become judged by the outer as a result of the team they end up in, and end up on a football scrap heap. Their experience is nowhere near what they dreamt of and hoped for and assumed would come their way. They came and they went and there wasn’t much good from it.
NJ: I have so many mates who were such naturally talented guys and sadly, they don’t look back fondly on it at all. They arrived right in the heart of when we really sucked. I just think back and I guess I’m lucky enough that I have that perspective of what good culture and successful culture looks like and all of the framework required for a club or organisation to be successful. Melbourne obviously has that right now: it’s foundational and sustainable on all levels. At the same time, it also gave me a really clear indication of how difficult it is to get it right though. What the average punter doesn’t see is the enormous work that goes into it all. Ultimately, Melbourne won the premiership in 2021. But the work that went into that, the time and effort and the shaping and building of elite level standards, behaviours, roles, clarity, belief, confidence, all the stuff that shone through on game day, and in the 2021 premiership was actually maybe five to six years of foundations and wins and losses and lessons before achieving the ultimate.
HM: I spoke to Peter Jackson a couple of hours before the grand final and said, “Whatever happens – well done’ He was such a huge agent of change from what you described as a poor culture, and a hapless environment, to becoming what it is now.
NJ: I’m Pete’s No. 1 supporter. I bloody love the bloke. I think what he did behind the scenes, he did so professionally and clinically. It was brick-by-brick laying those fundamental foundations. When he came along, he obviously brought Roosy in too. I think the respect that he commanded as coach took an element of the pressure away from the playing group. From years of failure there was this veil of negativity engulfing the club and its supporters, and he helped shield us as players, somewhat, from that. Roosy worked with his coaching group to make inroads into building some of the foundations for the football team. Developing the understanding of team and role play and the standards required in all areas to be successful. Peter Jackson got alignment within the club, top to bottom. Clarity across all departments that make the organisation as a whole function effectively. Without that, nothing would’ve improved. Pete and Roosy were the frontmen of that period who did enormous work, but they would acknowledge there were so many incredible people involved in and around them that helped steer that ship back on course. With strong foundations in place, and a commitment to investing in our people I think the succession to Goody was instrumental in the club’s next evolution. Goody added so many nuanced layers taking the football department and team to whole new level. He did it with real modern eye on what the game required and how it should be played. The consistency, repetition and alignment of values over many years has now allowed Melbourne to restake its claims as a top club, and fight consistently in finals and hopefully win more premierships, and that’s all any supporter or member could ever ask for from their club and team.
HM: Hard to believe that after you played 302 games, and all the turmoil and hardship and change that you were caught in the middle of, Melbourne found a way to win a premiership, and you weren’t there on the field?
NJ: I still find it hard today, mate, to be honest. I love the place. I love the people. And I particularly love the players. I was just in the right place, at the wrong time. A lot of the game comes down to luck, even winning the premiership, right? There’s probably four or five teams that are capable, but so much luck is involved to actually get there on the day, be in form, have a fit enough team, and for it all to come together. For me, that just coincided with me personally, being at that stage of my career where you’re not necessarily the “first guy picked”. I knew clearly when I gave away the captaincy, I had to fight scrap for my spot from here on in. All I could do is control the controllable; it was unfortunate for me it didn’t fall my way. But I can’t help but feel proud in some sense. And that’s why my focus has been trying to compartmentalise, right? There’s the personal aspect, but then there’s the team and leadership aspect. I made a really clear decision when I signed a long-term deal back after my first season as captain and Roosy’s first season as coach, that if I wasn’t – and I had conceded at that time – if I wasn’t to be a part of premiership success down the line, that I just wanted the club to be in a better place when I left it.
HM: And you did.
NJ: I hope so. I didn’t want anyone – like we touched on before – to have the experiences that I experienced, and what a lot of my really good mates experienced. I didn’t want that to be associated with the Melbourne Football Club ever again. I wanted new players to have, and rightfully so, the experience that they’re entitled to as an AFL player at one of the oldest sporting clubs in the world. So that’s what drove me. At that crossroad when I decided not to not explore other options, I made that commitment to myself because I wanted to be a part of that change and lead the playing group. And I felt like if it wasn’t me, then who was it going to be if I left as a skipper at that time? It would just decimate the group. I felt a sense of responsibility. And so I left the game proud of all of that aspect of it, but in the end, it’s bittersweet. That’s the way it goes, though – that’s team sport. You win some, you lose some.
HM: I was speaking to a guy at the club ahead of this interview. And he said, “No, Jonesy won a premiership!” I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “Well, he set the whole thing up. He didn’t play a lot but if Jonesy wasn’t there, then there’s no way Melbourne’s a premiership club.” How often do you think about it and how does it make you feel that you weren’t a part of it?
NJ: OK … now you’re getting deep and personal. Getting a bit emotional. Many of us attach our worth to the outcome of the endeavour itself. I thought I had to win a flag to be considered a success and worthy. In the weeks preceding, I found it really difficult, and then once all the dust settled and I was at home with our new twins and all four kids, I was like, “I’m retired. What do I do now?”
HM: How did you bounce?
NJ: I literally just went running every day and a few beers most weekends. I was flat and feeling sorry for myself. I wasn’t sure what was next. Jerri, my wife, shared a quote that stuck with me, and it put it all into perspective. It’s from Maya Angelou and it says, “I’ve learnt that people will forget what you said. People forget what you did. But people will never forget how you made them feel.” It made me really emotional. It still does. I started to think about the influence that I’d had on the playing group. All the messages that the boys sent me once I’d left Perth. And the emails and messages from family, friends, supporters, and people who I didn’t even know, even people that didn’t even support our club. I was like, “Wow, that gives me more fulfilment than anything I could have imagined.”
HM: What were the tone of the messages?
NJ: People saying that I gave them hope by never giving up on the club, and they grew resilient when they saw my resilience through that tough period, or it might have been crossing paths with a certain person at a different point in time or a phone call you might have made, or a message you might have sent. All those little things. When I left Perth, the biggest group of messages came from all the young guys. And what I touched on before – some of the lessons and personal growth that I had to go through to become more open and empathetic as a leader and let down some of my walls that I’d probably put up through those difficult times to become more vulnerable. Some of the most important messages to me came from all those young boys thanking me for the impact that I’d had on their careers. And so then my wife sent me that quote, that probably just put everything into context. I might not have the medallion, but I can be so proud of the impact and influence that I’d had on so many people. That helped me.
HM: That quote sums up all of it. No one knows who has the medallions, people know who made the difference!
NJ: Yeah, I look back now and like, I was back at the club on weekend just gone and, in some way, it was the closing of that chapter officially. I was honoured to pass the baton and to hand over the No. 2 jumper to Jacob van Rooyen. I shared with him the main message that Robbie Flower gave me 18 years ago when he presented mine. It was along the lines of: “Just be you. The page has been turned and now this is your chance to write your own story. Irrespective of the history of the number and the players that are gone before you, now it’s your time.” And that’s basically what I said to him. He had a ripper debut. He’s jagged three goals and he looks a bit different to the previous players that have worn the number, a big burly forward/ruck, crashing packs and taking contested marks. Just being back there and seeing all the people again, particularly old teammates, and just watching the game was great for me. I brought my eldest son with me and we were lucky enough to run around on the ’G for half an hour before the game just kicking the footy together. It’s hard not to be bloody grateful for the opportunities I got to play AFL footy. Like, that’s the dream come true. In those moments where you get to share them with family and be back among your second home, you can’t help but appreciate that connection to football.
HM: I was just thinking about Robbie in that No. 2 – it’s amazing how some of the greats of all time, some of those that have given so much, either didn’t even get to play in a grand final or certainly didn’t win one. those such as Lockett, Ablett Snr, Paul Roos, Bobby Skilton, Robbie Flower. It is a rare breed that actually gets there.
NJ: That’s what I said before, right? It’s really hard! It’s not easy to win a flag. And even the expectations for the teams that have been able to achieve multiple premierships, I have so much admiration and envy of them. It’s not easy to back it up, to stay fit, to be consistent, to continue to develop, continue to grow. Geelong for me, what they’ve done is amazing. We value so much the individual award or the premiership medallion, but what we don’t acknowledge enough is just the consistency of high-level performance. And for them to do what they’ve been able to do year after year for what, 10-15 years like that, in a competition that’s designed to create evenness and a level playing field, is amazing.
HM: What do you want to do now? You’ve always been a guy that’s been driven to make a difference and achieve. I guess you’re going to satisfy that nourishment by doing that?
NJ: I’m doing a bit: some work in the property development space with a company called Lowe Living, commentary with 7AFL, some coaching, some corporate culture and leadership stuff. I’m busy, that’s for sure. I took five months off and quickly realised I’d better get a job with four kids at home!
HM: Expensive hobby, fathering …
NJ: Very. After being so selfish for so long with the footy, I’m now putting my energy into my wife and kids. Jerri has been with me from the year I got drafted and lived every minute of it all. We have an epic relationship, and she was my rock through it all. My motivation now is to be just as successful and driven in whatever’s next and to raise good humans in my kids.
HM: Are you enjoying the game again?
NJ: As much as I ever have. I wanted to use some of my skills and knowledge from footy and got lucky to do some work with Seven and SEN last year. I didn’t think I would, but I just love it. I’m continuing this season with Seven. I feel like an absolute rookie still, but I’m conscious of just trying to focus on articulating what it’s actually like in clubland and how the modern game is played.
HM: And remind those that are listening or watching how incredibly hard it is as a sport, and not lose sight of that as an observer with a microphone in front of you.
NJ: We can’t lose sight of that. It is such a hard game. So hard. There’s a lot of luck involved and so many things have to go right in team sport, let along AFL footy. I still remember Jordy Lewis saying to me that being great is in some way kind of boring, as when you get to such a high level, it’s about repetition. Repeating, high-level habits and behaviours, day in, day out, That’s what breeds mastery and greatness. Hours and hours and hours of focus, practice and hard work. Let’s never lose sight of how brilliant these players are just to be out there.
HM: Good point. Did you ever play seniors for Mt Eliza?
NJ: Soon! I played my whole junior career there and started when I was six. When I got to 17, I was playing school representative footy and TAC Cup at the time, and I just never got the chance to go back and debut in any game because I was just constantly playing in TAC Cup, AGS footy for Peninsula Grammar, and Victorian State League footy. So I was on the list, but just never debuted. So just for a bit of fun, I’m going to go back and debut and play with a couple of mates! One show only!
HM: What date is it?
NJ: May 20, round 7. We are playing Sorrento – bit of a rivalry there. I’ve only kicked an Auskick footy in the past 12 months.
HM: Remember to stretch. I’ll be there.
NJ: Soft tissue injury is a high risk.
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