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Bourke Street inquest: Officer did not understand bail process for Gargasoulas

An inquest into the Bourke Street massacre has heard the police officer who tried to get James Gargasoulas locked up didn’t know he could ask to delay the bail hearing when it was clear Gargasoulas would not be remanded.

Coronial inquiry hears Bourke St killer 'couldn't be stopped'

The police officer trying to get Bourke St killer James Gargasoulas locked up didn’t know he was able to ask for a bail hearing to be delayed.

Senior Constable Jake Semmel was giving evidence at the inquest into the Bourke St tragedy that it was apparent the hearing on January 14, 2017 was not going to end with Gargasoulas being remanded as he had expected.

Mr Semmel was asked by the counsel assisting the coroner, Paul Lawrie, about how well he understood the bail hearing process.

The inquest had heard a previous witness — Detective Senior Constable Murray Gentner — was in another part of St Kilda Police Station typing up additional charges to the ones Mr Sen-Constable Semmel was laying against Gargasoulas.

Those charges weren’t ready and he had to race down the stairs to try to intervene.

Mr Lawrie asked him Sen-Constable Semmel if he knew “you could ask for a proceeding to be stood down?” “No,” Mr Semmel he told him.

He said police usually learned about bail hearings “on the job” with senior colleagues, with there being “minimal training at the academy”.

Asked whether more specific training would benefit police, he said: “Yes. For all police officers, not just detectives.”

He also said he handed the bail justice a document with Gargasoulas’ prior convictions on it before he granted him bail -—something the bail justice is expected to deny when he gives evidence to the inquest.

He said he relied on “prior convictions and 13 previous instances of failing to appear on bail”.

Six days after he was bailed, Gargasoulas killed three-month-old Zachary Bryant, 10-year-old Thalia Hakin, Jess Mudie, 22, Yosuke Kanno, 25, Matthew Si, 33, and Bhavita Patel, 33.

James ‘Dimitrious’ Gargasoulas. Picture: AAP
James ‘Dimitrious’ Gargasoulas. Picture: AAP

Meanwhile Detective Senior Constable Murray Gentner, who was following Gargasoulas before his deadly Bourke St rampage, has rejected a claim he was being “played” by the killer.

Sen-Constable Murray Gentner thought he could get Gargasoulas to surrender and was following an arrest plan on the day of the January 2017 attack that killed six people and wounded dozens more.

But the barrister representing the families of the victims put it to him he was “nowhere near getting a surrender plan in action” as he tailed Gargasoulas around Melbourne and had “no real back-up plan”.

Gargasoulas was communicating via text with the detective, but his words became increasingly unhinged.

“But in fact that dialogue was the ramblings of a psychotic delusional man without any grip on reality. That’s who you were speaking to at the time?” Aine Magee QC asked.

Sen-Constable Gentner replied: “The fact I had that dialogue and his attention — without that we had nothing.”

“Do you accept you lost control of the situation with the offender?” she asked.

There was a long pause before Sen-Constable Gentner said: “It’s a difficult question to answer. If you look at the net result, I would’ve certainly hoped to have prevented what occurred down the track.”

The inquest has heard Gargasoulas was trying to impress Sen-Constable Gentner and seemed “fixated” with him.

Ms Magee suggested what was in fact happening was “the offender was playing you … he was getting your attention, he was just playing cat and mouse with you and the police.”

“From my perspective that wasn’t the case. I can’t answer what he was doing … certainly I had a strong belief he may come in and surrender to me,” Sen-Constable Gentner said.

He agreed Gargasoulas may have been waiting for him when he lingered at Flinders St.

His view was that it was too dangerous to ram Gargasoulas’ car at the intersection of Flinders and Swanston streets. “You’d have to be extremely lucky to make contact with [the] car and stop it immediately and it not career into the hundreds of people surrounding,” he said.

In hindsight, he would have attempted it.

“But without knowing then (what eventually happened) that certainly was the wrong decision,” he said

He said then Victoria Police policies on hostile vehicle and pursuits affected his decisions.

Changes to those policies since then had “freed us up to probably police in a more natural way again … There was an overwhelming feeling at the time of the incident we were hamstrung with vehicles. That was a feeling across the force.”

Officers were scared of the consequences of engaging.

“It reduced our potential aggression in trying to deal with an incident,” Sen-Constable Gentner said.

Footage released by Victoria Poice of Dimitrious Gargasoulas being chased by police.
Footage released by Victoria Poice of Dimitrious Gargasoulas being chased by police.

There were tense scenes at the inquest when Sen-Constable Gentner was asked to explain why he rushed laying charges against a “delusional” criminal who would then go on to kill six people.

Sen-Const Gentner was in another room at St Kilda Police Station when the after-hours bail hearing began on January 14, 2017.

He was typing up charges for Gargasoulas — based on admissions he had made to him and believed he was a serious risk of reoffending.

A colleague informed him the bail hearing was going badly and he tried to intervene — but bail was granted and Gargasoulas was set free.

Aine Magee QC asked why Sen-Constable Gentner hadn’t taken the time to ensure all the charges were ready for the bail hearing.

“Why was there a rush to get a bail application without the complete charges being ready?” she said.

The detective replied it hadn’t been rushed “in his mind” and he was clear that he was going upstairs to type the charges and he was to be informed if it looked like bail was possible.

Ms Magee demanded to know “why you didn’t ask for 10 or 15 minutes” delay and “why you didn’t take the steps to ensure the compete charges were ready”.

He told her he believed he was clear about his intent and the action of going upstairs to complete the charges showed more, more serious, charges were imminent.

His answer frustrated Ms Magee.

“Just answer my question,” she interjected — which caused a rebuke from Coroner Jacqui Hawkins who warned her “it doesn’t need to be so heated”.

Sen-Constable Gentner told the inquest he believed it was clear during the hearing when he told the bail justice of the extra charges and his concerns “so I don’t think it would have made a difference” if the charges had been ready or not.

He conceded by the time the hearing began though, the complete charge had not been laid — and agreed with her statement “thorough” preparation for bail hearings was required.

Given that consideration ... why couldn’t you take 10 minutes and lay all the charges so it was all clear and through in front of the bail justice,” Ms Magee said.

Sen-Constable Gentner said he had given evidence about what he said at the hearing and believed the bail justice was aware of the serious concerns police held.

She put it to him the bail justice would give evidence that police concerns about Gargasoulas’ drug use weren’t mentioned until after bail was granted.

“I totally disagree,” Sen-Constable Gentner said.

Sen-Constable Gentner was also asked about a claim Gargasoulas made that there was an “understanding” between them.

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He told the inquest it “was clear” there was no understanding, but did not use the words “delusional” or “fantasy” at the hearing.

Gargasoulas was jailed in February for at least 46 years for the murders of three-month-old Zachary Matthew-Bryant, Matthew Si, 33, Jess Mudie, 23, Thalia Hakin, 10, Bhavita Patel, 33, and Yosuke Kanno, 25.

The inquest continues.

andrew.koubaridis@news.com.au

Original URL: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/rush-to-charge-eventual-bourke-st-killer-contributed-to-him-being-granted-bail-inquest-hears/news-story/61ca37bbf05c61eb3d1f7a5852f024ed