Hamish McLachlan chats with four-time premiership player Shaun Burgoyne

SHAUN Burgoyne was instrumental in the Hawks’ golden years and chats to Hamish McLachlan about winning a flag and the birth of a child during a finals series.

Shaun Burgoyne at home with his two boys - Ky and Percy

THREE-hundred gamer. Four-time premiership player. All-Australian. Master of the big play, at the big moment. An instrumental piece of Hawthorn’s recent golden run. And, only maybe, the best player in his family.

As part of the Swisse Series, Shaun Burgoyne spoke about growing up kicking the football in the streets with his brothers, pretending to be Tony Modra, learning about fatherhood, the importance of a happy wife, the move from Adelaide to Melbourne, missing Buddy, simpler times, winning a premiership with his brother and battling the birth of a child during a finals series.

HM: You always loved footy?

SB: Yep, ever since I was a kid. As you get older you realise that not only is it special to play, but it’s special in the way that it brings everyone together. I grew up in a small town where it was the no.1 sport, so on a Saturday you’d get the mums and the dads down the to the club, cutting the oranges and helping out. It can galvanise communities. When you get to the AFL arena, thousands of people come to watch and escape and enjoy yelling at the top of their lungs. How can you not love that!

HM: For many, Hawthorn is their family, and you’re a member of their family by default. Are you conscious of how much you mean to so many people?

SB: It still surprises me when people come up to me and say nice things about me, and say how much I mean to them as a player. It still takes me by surprise, because for me I’m just a normal person, I’m a father, and people constantly coming up to me asking for autographs or photos is something I’ll never get used to. It’s still very surprising. I feel very privileged.

HM: Footy has always been a big part of your family’s life. Your father, Peter, played football “semi-professionally”. He travelled around with his brothers and family, and played all over Australia?

SB: Yeah, he played in country SA, country WA, and the Northern Territory. He won a few Mail Medals, which is the league best and fairest award in the country leagues. They all loved footy, they loved travelling, and I think that’s one of the things I liked about dad — he was always playing footy and was always happy just being with his brothers and family. That’s where the love for footy began in our family: hearing dad’s stories about playing footy, and seeing him play. We wanted to be like that. The stories seem to get better every year, too.

Shaun Burgoyne with his family in the rooms after the Grand Final in 2015. Picture: Wayne Ludbey

HM: The longer your old man is retired, the better the player he was?

SB:(laughs) Yeah … pretty much! He still tells me, this is how you kick goals, this is how you beat taggers, this is what you do in this situation. He is pretty sure he is the best Burgoyne that has played! He’s always right too!

HM: Your father grew up on a mission just outside of Ceduna. How much do you know of his childhood?

SB: A little bit. He was born in a mission called Koonibba, where I believe the footy team is the oldest indigenous team in Australia. Our family are very strong in that area, and he has spoken a lot about his childhood there. He then moved down to Port Lincoln. We always enjoyed listening to the stories of his childhood when we were growing up, and on school holidays we would go back there with him, camping, fishing, hunting and all that stuff. It was hot as well, 45 degrees! Out there in the middle of the desert. We loved the people and the life, and listening to the stories, and it’s something that we can hopefully pass down to our children, and they can pass down to theirs.

HM: You father, at 37, with English not being his first language, decided he should become formally educated?

SB: When he was born, English wasn’t his first language. Once he moved down to Port Lincoln, his English started to get better, but education wasn’t high on the priority list back then when he was young. He said his first job was when he was 12 years old, that’s when he finished school. At 37 he wanted to go back and get his Certificate in Education, and ended up getting a Master’s degree and a Diploma. It wasn’t easy for him because he had to work as well, so he went to night schools and night TAFE too. It’s a credit to him that he’s done it.

HM: Huge effort. You’ve got four kids. How old is your eldest?

SB: I’ve got a 10, 7, 4 and an 18 month old.

HM: Your 10-year-old — if he was your father — is only two years away from getting full-time employment!

SB: That puts it in to perspective, but, as he puts it, when he was young they needed to go out and earn money to help put food on the table, because they needed the family to live. He had a number of brothers and sisters, so he just had to make the sacrifice and get a job to help provide for everyone. It makes you realise how easy we have it today, compared to what he and so many other people had back then when they were younger.

HM: What’s your earliest footy memory?

SB: Kicking the footy in the front yard with my brothers in Port Lincoln. Kicking the footy at night, using the driveway posts as goals. I used to kick down the hill because I was younger than my brother Peter, so he kicked it up the hill. We used to kick the footy all the time, out on the road — we had to stop when the cars would drive past, before coming inside and marking the walls with the footy. Mum wasn’t too happy about that! They’re my earliest memories of footy, then probably going to school and playing. I think Victorians call it Jack in the Pack; for us South Australians it was Markers Up! We were constantly trying to take hangers on our mates at recess or lunch time.

The Burgoyne family in the Port Adelaide change rooms.

HM: In kick to kick we all pretend we are someone — who were you?

SB: Growing up in Adelaide, there was only one guy you wanted to be — Modra. Everyone called him Godra! Or Y’Ablett! It was all about fun and excitement, and that’s exactly what Modra showcased, playing full forward and taking hangers every week.

HM: Brothers dream about playing AFL football, and often pretend they are playing in one together. It’s a little farfetched to believe it’ll actually happen with your brother.

SB: It is — it’s all a bit much to think it could happen. Growing up, we both played for Mallee Park in juniors back in Port Lincoln, and being a 12-year-old I used to fill in for the under 17s. I’d get smacked around by the bigger kids, but it was always great to be able to go up an age group and play a quarter or two with him. He’s five years older than me. Being drafted to Port was unbelievable, because I didn’t think I really stood a chance of staying in Adelaide. Playing in a grand final there, having our parents there and my wife as well, was an unbelievable moment. The stats and the odds say it doesn’t happen too often, but when it’s something you dream of as kids, and then it finally happens, is remarkable. Words can’t really describe the feelings that go through your body at that moment, but we look back at photos now and it definitely brings a smile.

HM: When you won in 2004, did you go straight to Peter?

SB: I did — I went straight to him and gave him a hug. Byron Pickett grew up in Port Lincoln as well, and he lived with us for a little while in Adelaide when he first came across to start with the Port Magpies, so I had a special bond with him. He was one of my groomsmen at my wedding, so to share that moment with Peter and Byron was unbelievable. Then, the feeling of going over to the changerooms afterwards to talk with our family and friends about what we had just achieved — that was really special. Mum and Dad were pretty excited, and my wife was pretty pumped as well!

HM: It’s a great photo with your brother, Byron and Gavin Wanganeen, all with premiership medallions on, all looking very content.

SB: Yeah, it was, it was a satisfying feeling. It was well documented at the time that Port Adelaide had previously bombed out in straight sets, and we’d been called chokers for the last two or three years in a row, so to have that feeling of relief was nice. The night before the grand final, myself and Byron roomed together, and Peter and Gavin were in the room and we went and had a little meeting. We said we wanted to play well, and we wanted to win; that was the plan the night before! The next day we obviously won, so it was quite a big moment and an emotional day.

HM: You dream about that moment all your life as a footballer, and when the moment actually comes, and the siren sounds, is the reality better than all of the dreaming?

SB: Yes, it’s better because there are so many mixed emotions. Not only do you see your ideas and thoughts and your dreams all come true, but you see the expressions on everyone else’s faces and you see the people that work behind the scenes, the volunteers and the families, and they’ve all had the same dream.

Shaun Burgoyne and Lance Franklin.

HM: So much is made of the 22 players and the coach when you win a premiership — but there are so many others that do just as much without the accolades.

SB: Yeah, there were a lot at Port. “Dad’s Army” used to come to the club, I think they still do. They clean all the boots and clean up around the club and the gardens. They were a great group of old guys who volunteered. I will miss one or two, but off the top of my head there was Clary, Alfie and Al … they meant, and still mean, a lot to the club. They were with Port Adelaide in the ’60s and ’70s and ’80s and they have all the stories! Every time you go back you say hello to those old guys because they are still kicking around there. When the siren sounded on grand final day, the emotion on their faces said so much. These people live and bleed for the club and all they want to see is success.

HM: If I could take you to the moment where you got the most joy out of football but it wasn’t a grand final, where would you be?

SB: I used to just play footy simply to spend time with my cousins and my mates, so if you take the grand finals out of it, it might just be the simplicity of kick to kick at recess and lunchtime at school. We would play after school waiting for the school bus, and then we would go back to a place where all the kids would go, and we would get looked after there until it was home time. We would play footy there until it was dark, and the next day we would just repeat it all again. They were simple, fun times.

HM: As you had a footy, you were happy?

SB: Yeah, as long as we had a footy, we were happy. When we were young, if I had a footy, it meant I was around my family, my friends and my cousins playing the game. We all loved the game. Walking to school, as much as I don’t want to say it, kicking the footys and breaking street lights or the post or the sign on the way to school — that’s where the love of footy just grew with me. It was a chance to be involved in a team atmosphere.

HM: Who’s the best footballer in the Burgoyne family — Peter or Shaun?

SB: I get asked that often, and it’s hard to say. I always say him because he’s my older brother, but we play different positions. I’m a lot taller than him, he’s smaller.

HM: You’d be pretty stiff to be a four-time premiership player, a 300-gamer, and not the best player in your family.

SB: Yeah, he’s pretty good, though. He’s probably the better on baller, I’m the better defender, and we are probably as equal in the forward line. It’s a tough one — you will have to ask him next time you see him!

Shaun Burgoyne with his daughter.

HM: Your kids, Leni, Ky, Nixie, Percy. What do they mean to you?

SB: They’re everything to me. They’re my world, and they’re the reason why I’m here today. I was destined to be a dad, and I wanted to have children at a young age. I wanted to be a younger father and hopefully have those guys see me play footy, which they do now. They come to the footy every week, but to them I’m just Dad.

HM: You’re a young father. What have you learnt along the way about being a good father?

SB: It’s a lot of trial and error. I’ve learnt to just try and slow things down when I come home. I’m just Dad, so it’s pretty much no footy talk. I try to make time for them, and they do need a lot of time. They have a lot of energy and they are always on the go. I’m normally gone before they wake up in the morning, because I head off to training, and I normally try to do school pick-ups and get to their sports on weekends. It’s always something new each day, a different problem. I just try and do the best I can, really.

HM: If you learn how to stop them fighting, text me. I need help.

SB: We have about 1000 toys, but all four of them seem to want the same toy at once! I’ve got to jump in the middle and figure out whose toy it is and who I will give it to without hurting someone else’s feelings, and without playing favourites. I try to treat them all the same and not play favourites, because they can pull that card out pretty quick.

HM: For a footy player in Melbourne, they must be a nice distraction?

SB: They are — they don’t really care how many kicks or handballs I get on a weekend, they’re more worried about what their friends are doing and making sure their school clothes are ready for the morning, or about their school excursion, or about their basketball training. I love coming home to that. Kids’ cartoons are more than likely on the TV, so I’m watching cartoons. But yeah, to them I’m just Dad, and it’s good to just leave footy at footy. I think I’ve had a pretty good routine that when I leave footy training I just leave it there, and come home to a whole new different set of problems.

HM: And that exists the night of the premiership, the night before the premiership, and the day after the premiership?

SB: It does. Going back two years, we played the Adelaide Crows on the Friday night in the final. The next day my wife went into labour and gave birth to our daughter, Nixie. She was in hospital for a couple of days, so I went in on the Wednesday, picked her up, drove her home, gave her a kiss, gave the kids a kiss, and then I flew out to Perth to play Fremantle in a prelim final. That stuff is just part and parcel of being a dad. You’ve got to roll with whatever happens, and sometimes those things pop up and you have to make the best of whatever situation you have. We went to Freo and had the win, and came back and won the grand final the next week. My wife was in the crowd with our newborn baby, so we went to Build-A-Bear workshop and bought a Hawthorn bear, took the Hawthorn clothes off the Build-A-Bear and put them on our baby so she was kitted out. That was grand final week!

Shaun Burgoyne and Peter Burgoyne of the Power celebrate their Grand Final win. Picture: Ryan Pierse/Getty

HM: Given that only Michael Tuck has played more finals than you, you should try and have children in months other than September!

SB: Yeah, I know. I didn’t plan it too well having the baby at the end of the year, but it’s just one of those things. If your baby’s healthy and your wife’s happy, then you’re happy, and that’s good prep leading into a game.

HM: Well said. If you wanted to teach your kids one thing in life, what do you reckon it would be?

SB: I would always teach them to have good manners. I like them to say please and thank you, and so far they all have good manners. I’d like them to be grateful for the position they’re in. They’re always talking about their friends and people out there who are less fortunate than them, and who are in worse-off positions. I like that they recognise their good fortune. We always talk about donating toys and clothes to different organisations to help out those kids and families in need, so if they can be grateful for the position they are in I will be very happy, and if they continue to use their manners I’ll be happy too.

HM: Manners and gratefulness, a good combination. You moved from Port to Hawthorn. What was it in the end that got you across the line? Was there a conversation, a feeling or a moment where you thought “Hawthorn’s my club”?

SB: Once I’d made the decision to leave Port, I picked a couple of clubs, and then in the chats with Hawthorn, I sat down with Clarko and the list management team, and they said this is the position we think we’re in right now, and this is where we think we’re going into the future. We think we have a good young list, and we think we are going to have opportunities to win multiple premierships. They didn’t use those words exactly, but they said they were in a position where they were going to have a crack at winning multiple premierships in the future — and they asked if I wanted to be a part of that. I was very happy to see my future with Hawthorn and very happy to commit to Hawthorn. Ideally, we thought we were only going to last three years, but we’re into our 8th now.

HM: They were looking for three years — have got eight — that’s good shopping!

SB: It’s worked well. Clarko said if I couldn’t play for at least three years, I’d be better off staying at Port and finishing out my career there.

HM: Big thing packing up your family and moving state with young kids.

SB: It was tricky. We had just bought our dream house in Adelaide and we were going to live there for the rest of our lives. We’d just had our second kid — Percy was six months old — and then suddenly everything changed.

HM: Did you know anyone?

SB: No, we only knew a couple of my cousins who played with other footy teams, and that was pretty much about it. I was on crutches as I had just had major knee surgery, so it was quite a difficult move at that time considering all those things. But we knew it wasn’t going to be easy at the time, so we prepared ourselves for that.

Hawthorn's Shaun Burgoyne holds the trophy with his children in 2014. Picture: David Caird

HM: Do you recover more slowly compared to when you started?

SB: Yeah, I do, it takes a lot longer to recover these days. I have had the major surgeries which has an impact on your joints, so you’ve got to take care of that — a lot of ice baths, physio, massage, acupuncture; a strict diet as well. I had to lose a bit of weight too, so less weight going through my joints during the week is a modification.

HM: Do you spend much time on your mind?

SB: A lot, actually. I do a lot of visualising. It is amazing how much time there is when you can just sit and think and use downtime well. There’s a lot of thinking time when you’re in the span and ice baths and doing pilates. Visualisation of what I want to achieve, and then how I will do it when the moment arrives — whether it is a kick at goal, or a tackle, or a shepherd. I find when it comes, I feel I have sort of been there and done it. The mind is a powerful tool.

HM: Have you always visualised?

SB: Slowly, as you get older and hopefully a bit wiser, you learn different things and this is one. When you are younger, you visualise kicking the goal and celebrating a win or taking a hanger, the things that probably aren’t likely to happen or as realistic. As you get older you need to sharpen some areas up in your game and you visualise yourself working on your deficiencies and being ready for what might be coming at you from your opposition.

HM: When I think of you I think of specific moments where you were instrumental in breaking the Kennett curse. It would be hard to find a feeling any better?

SB: It was an unbelievable feeling, because the roar is so loud and your blood’s pumping. You go to celebrate, but at the same time you’ve quickly got to put the brakes on, stay calm and just reassess what needs to be done.

HM: Twenty points down at three-quarter time in that preliminary final. Can you put your finger on what allowed Hawthorn to win so many finals, like you did over the three years, and in the tight games, come-from-behind games, and key finals?

SB: I think the belief that has grown over the last few years with Hawthorn started in those finals series, maybe even a little bit before that when we were starting to gel together as a group and we began to have some good continuity within the playing group. We were starting to know how each other played, and we had some real faith and belief in the game plan, and then that never-say-die attitude developed. When you have some strong leaders who are leading from the front in Hodge, Mitchell, Lewy, Roughy, Rioli, Birchall, and Buddy when he was there, it makes it pretty easy to jump on and lead with them, and fight until the final siren. In that game against Geelong that’s exactly what we were talking about at three-quarter time, as we were 20 points down. We had to have a crack, we had to fight until the end. You can only try and put yourself in those positions, and learn from them.

HM: New faces and some really familiar faces at the Hawks in 2017. Did it surprise you when you were told Sam and Jordan would be playing elsewhere? Is that something that you were caught off guard by?

SB: Yeah, I think everyone was genuinely surprised by that. You don’t normally change clubs at that age and no one, myself included, had heard any whispers about what was going to happen.

Shaun Burgoyne with basketballer Erin Phillips, Gavin Wanganeen and Brett Ebert with students at Polly Farmer homework centre in South Australia.

HM: It’s so rare in football to have something so big be kept so quiet.

SB: Yeah, the first time I heard about it was on the radio. I heard Mitch ring up SEN and give his interview when it was rumoured he was going to go. I was driving to training just to have a swim, so I was a bit surprised, but then the more you listen and talk to Clarko, and after I’d heard his side of the story, it just made sense that those guys could go on and further themselves. Mitch wants to be a coach after footy, and that is his plan at the moment. Lewy got a three-year deal, so it’s worked out very well for those guys, and it worked out well for Hawthorn as well.

HM: You’re an indigenous leader, and you’ve been really out spoken about stereotyping indigenous players. What would you hope happens at each club for indigenous players to make an AFL life easier?

SB: There are obviously a number of things that clubs are doing at the moment. They are always drafting indigenous players, and they’re getting indigenous liaison officers. I think the next step for clubs is to have indigenous coaches, development coaches, and senior coaches. At the moment I’m pretty sure there are only three across the league — Andy Lovell at Gold Coast, Roger Hayden at Fremantle and Xavier Clarke at Richmond.

HM: Only Xavier in Victoria is an indigenous assistant coach. It’s seems a remarkably low number.

SB: Yeah, it is, even more so when you consider indigenous players make up roughly 10-11 per cent of lists. It would be ideal to have some indigenous coaches to help transition those players into having longer careers. We need to get more indigenous umpires in as well. I don’t think there’s been an indigenous umpire since Glen James, so hopefully we can get some more indigenous umpires and coaches. It will be nice to see.

HM: What do you miss most about Buddy?

SB: He’s just a larger-than-life character, and around the boys at training he was always so much fun. Buddy never takes himself too seriously when he’s at the club, but then as a player, on game day, he is an absolute freak of an athlete and a big-time performer. As a tall forward, he can run as fast as the smallest player, which is so rare, and then at speed he can kick the ball 70-80m. When you rocked up to play at Hawthorn, with Cyril in one forward pocket and Buddy in the other, two absolute excitement machines, it was very special. I got front-row seats to what ever magic show they were putting on!

HM: If you were CEO of the AFL for a day, what would you change first?

SB: That’s a question I actually didn’t expect you to ask! I’m not too sure. Right now the women’s comp is a big thing, and I think maybe the grand final could be a curtain-raiser for the round one game. It would get the girls in front of a crowd of 80,000 or 90,000.

Shaun Burgoyne of Hawthorn celebrates after the siren in 2015. Picture: Nicole Garmston

HM: Selfless answer?

SB: It is, although my sister-in-law is playing at the moment. I watch every game, so hopefully the league grows and hopefully she gets to grow in the league as well.

HM: Three-hundred-plus games, so many seasons, grand finals, premierships. Do you still get nervous?

SB: Yeah, a little before a game. It’s interesting to see the boys’ routines. Some like to joke around, and some like to be serious. I sit in the joking around area. A bit of music and bit of laughter with the boys, normally. Ben Stratton normally has the music going, and it cuts the tension out of the air. I get a little bit nervous, but I’ve learnt how to keep it in control.

HM: What time should a grand final start?

SB: I’m a traditionalist. I love the time it starts now. For me, footy is the no.1 priority, and the entertainment is secondary. Everyone wants a night grand final for the entertainment, and I don’t like change at all, so I want the game to stay where it is, but there seems to be a lot of pressure at the moment to change it.

HM: If you could recommend a book, what would it be? You’re a reader?

SB: Yes, I actually just read a book, it’s called Killing Pablo.

HM: Good read?

SB: It’s probably not the best read for some people. I’d heard so much about him — he was obviously an infamous drug lord. To see exactly what he did and how he got caught, as well as learn about his life and how they actually caught him in the end, was quite amazing.

HM: How did they catch him?

SB: They shot him dead.

HM: That’s one way to catch him!

SB: They spent hundreds and millions of dollars trying to find him, and they used new technology at the time. It’s old technology now, but at the time it was new; things like listening devices.

Shaun Burgoyne and wife Amy.

HM: When was the last time you cried?

SB: Last time I cried — you want me to be honest now?

HM: The whole chat is supposed to be honest!

SB: I took a risk and watched the movie Lion on the plane on the way back from a practice game, and I was told it was a tear-jerker. I was watching the movie with my head between my legs, and I was actually crying a fair bit. I was sitting among all the team, so I put my head between my legs and watched it on my phone. Turns out it was a tear-jerker!

HM: Are you a crier by nature?

SB: I’m not. I never used to cry until I had my kids, and I’ve started crying since they have come into the world, so they have softened me up. I’m not too happy about that either!

HM: What’s the best advice you have been given in life?

SB: Eat your vegetables! My mum always told me to eat my vegetables if you wanted to grow big and strong. I try to teach my kids the same lessons, be polite and always be grateful for what you have, because there is always someone worse off.

HM: AFL, AFLW, four children, two of each. Do you see any playing at the top level?

SB: Hopefully! I encourage them to play sport, and I’ve always tried to get them in the backyard. Ky and Percy both play footy now. They love kicking and catching at the moment, and they say they want to play AFL. I’d love for my daughters to play footy at some stage. My daughter and I, Leni, we went and watched her big aunty Erin (Phillips) play for Adelaide at the Whitten Oval. She was running around in her Adelaide Crows jumper just trying to be like her aunty. If she wants to play footy, I will be very happy for her to play AFLW. Footy is a great game.