‘Do you really need $150 billion?’ Bernie Sanders on taxing the uber-rich

Each week, Benjamin Law asks public figures to discuss the subjects we’re told to keep private by getting them to roll a die. The numbers they land on are the topics they’re given. This week, he talks to Bernie Sanders. The American senator, 82, is into his third term in the US Senate and is the longest-serving independent member of Congress in US history. He is the author of It’s OK to Be Angry About Capitalism.

Bernie Sanders: “Many people are catching on to the fact that the so-called American Dream is a myth.”Credit: Tony Cenicola/Redux/Headpress

MONEY

Your book’s titled It’s OK to Be Angry About Capitalism. What do you say to people who’ve done well out of capitalism and like things just the way they are? Well, congratulations. But we cannot maintain, in my view, a system – globally or in the United States – where so few have so much and so many have so little. Right now, three people in America own more wealth than the entire bottom half of American society.

Is it capitalism that’s the problem, or the specific kind of capitalism the US has designed and fostered? What I’m talking about is uber-capitalism. A lot of great people start a business, come up with some new innovation and are good entrepreneurs, god bless ’em. On the other hand, in America you have three Wall Street firms – BlackRock, State Street and Vanguard – that are the major stockholders in 95 per cent of American [S&P 500] corporations. That’s excessive power.

Is it true that you think income of more than $1 billion US should be taxed at 100 per cent?
[Nods] Let’s say you’re a businessman. You start a business, you do really well, you make a product that people want. Great. How much do you really need? Do you really need $150 billion? What Elon Musk has? What Jeff Bezos has? Are you not content feeding your family on a billion dollars?

But it seems many people – Americans, especially – aspire to be billionaires. It’s like the new version of the American Dream. How do you persuade people? Well, many people are catching on to the fact that the so-called American Dream is a myth. Many people in America work incredibly long hours under great stress, worried their kids are going to be even worse off than they are. We have a broken healthcare system. People can’t afford to send their kids to college. The cost of housing is severe. So the American Dream is coming under question now.

How do you respond to the headlines that highlight how Bernie Sanders – the socialist senator! – has amassed a $2.5 million fortune? I’ve written a couple of bestselling books. I made money from them and I get a salary from the Senate. People want to attack to me for that? Fine!

POLITICS

What were the influences that shaped your politics? Number one: I grew up in a working-class family. We weren’t poor, but we struggled and lived in what was called a “rent-controlled” apartment for lower-income families. The stresses and tensions that exist because of inadequate finances have stayed with me my whole life. The other thing is, I’m Jewish. When I was growing up, I learnt about the Holocaust and what racism and bigotry can do. That has also influenced my life: trying to create a world in which we look at people as human beings.

One of your strengths is your ability to work with a wide group of people, including people you don’t agree with. But in American politics, the divides have never felt greater. So how do you continue to do that? Political division is hotter now than it has ever been in my lifetime. What you do is, you pick and you choose. For example, I’m the chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. It turns out there was a Republican member – a physician – who agreed with me on many issues. So we sat down and we worked together – I had to make compromises – to come up with probably the most significant reform in primary healthcare we’ve seen for a long, long time. [The Bipartisan Primary Care and Health Workforce Act was announced last September.]

Do you fear Donald Trump’s re-election as president, despite all of the actions in the courts?
If your question is, does Donald Trump have a reasonable chance of winning? Yes, he does.

Should Joe Biden step down as the Democrats’ nominee, given his age and declining popularity? Biden is the candidate; that’s the end of the discussion. I think he has a good chance to win. Can Trump win? Absolutely. Can Biden win? Absolutely. If you don’t agree with Biden on everything, that’s fine. But he’s far superior to Trump.

You’re the longest-serving independent member of Congress in American history. What accounts for your political longevity? Well, I thank the people of Vermont. We welcome Australians to come and visit us!

RELIGION

You mentioned that growing up Jewish influenced your politics. Did Judaism itself influence you? [Smiles] I can’t sit here and tell you that I’ve been significantly impacted by the study of the Torah or my years in Hebrew school. Not the case, for better or worse.

Politicians have to project an air of certainty. Do you ever doubt yourself? Of course. All of us struggle to determine what’s right, and the stakes are very often very high. There are competing visions and ideas and we, with all of our imperfections, have got to do our best to make the right decisions and fight for ’em. Do I doubt myself? Sure.

Where do you get your sense of awe and wonder from? I live in Vermont, one of the most rural states in the country. It’s a beautiful state. Looking at the extraordinary beauty of nature moves me a lot.

Where do you continue to get your sense of meaning?
I have four kids and seven grandchildren. You wake up in the morning and want to make sure that the world they’re going to live in is a world of decency.

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