‘I’m not a Nazi’: Inside the room where senior Liberals ‘piled on’ Moira Deeming

A secret recording of a tense 70-minute meeting between Victorian Liberal leaders and now-ousted party room member Moira Deeming was aired in Federal Court, as her defamation case against Opposition Leader John Pesutto heated up on Tuesday.

Moira Deeming (left) and her barrister Sue Chrysanthou arrive for day two of the high-profile defamation case on Tuesday.Credit: AAP

Why was the secret recording played?

The recording of the meeting on March 19, 2023 – the day after the Let Women Speak rally that was gatecrashed by neo-Nazis – was handed to Deeming’s lawyers a week ago.

On Monday, Deeming’s lawyer Sue Chrysanthou, SC, told the court the recording would show Pesutto had given false statements.

Deeming was expelled from the Liberal party room in May last year for her role in the rally. She remains a crossbench MP in the Victorian upper house and a broader member of the Liberal Party.

John Pesutto and his wife Betty arrive at the Federal Court on Tuesday.Credit: Con Chronis/AAP

She is suing Pesutto, alleging the Liberal leader defamed her as a Nazi sympathiser, which Pesutto rejects.

“You’re not going to find a single shred of evidence … obviously I’m not a mind reader, maybe there’s some secret Nazi somewhere.”

Moira Deeming

That meeting ended with the leadership team telling Deeming they would seek to expel her. How the meeting unfolded is a key plank in Deeming’s case.

Who was there?

John Pesutto, opposition leader
David Southwick, deputy Liberal leader
Georgie Crozier, leader of the Opposition in the Upper House
Former MP Matt Bach, who was deputy leader of the upper house at the time
Pesutto’s then-chief of staff Rodrigo Pintos-Lopez, a Havard-educated lawyer
Moira Deeming, who was a Liberal MP in the Upper House at the time

What happened?

With dinging Melbourne trams rattling along Spring Street in the background, the audio opened with Pesutto explaining the “implications” of Deeming’s attendance at the rally that was gatecrashed by neo-Nazis.

Pesutto: ”There’s this very concerning perception out there that we are associated with Nazis.

“I’m getting clobbered.”

Deeming asked Pesutto why she was being blamed for “some random horrible people showing up”.

Deeming: ”Very obviously, I’m not a Nazi. And I don’t support Nazis.”

Moira Deeming addresses the Let Women Speak rally in Melbourne in March last year.Credit: Youtube

Pesutto then moved the discussion on to the rally organisers and sought an assurance that none of the people Deeming had associated with – including those she celebrated with after the event – had links to the neo-Nazis.

Deeming replied that there were no links she could have reasonably known about. “You’re not going to find a single shred of evidence … obviously I’m not a mind reader, maybe there’s some secret Nazi somewhere,” she said.

Pintos-Lopez, who had only been in the job a few days, can then be heard going through some basic research he compiled on UK anti-trans rights activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull.

Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull outside Parliament House in Canberra last year.Credit: Alex Ellinghausen

There was also a discussion about a tweet from Melbourne woman Angela Jones – who Deeming celebrated with after the rally and who has attended court this week as an observer – that said: “Nazis and women want to get rid of pedo filth, why don’t you?”

Southwick told the meeting that, as a Jew, the language in the tweet was seriously offensive to Jewish people. “For you to go and have a little champagne with them,” Southwick said – a reference to footage of Deeming celebrating with rally organisers after the event.

“They have been itching for something to clobber me with and this is it.”

John Pesutto

The leadership team expressed their fears – just months out from the 2022 election – that Labor would weaponise Deeming’s attendance at the rally.

Pesutto: “They have been itching for something to clobber me with and this is it.”

He said it was the perfect weapon: “[Nazism] is like the most toxic acid that can run through any political party, and it’s running through us.”

Deeming said she wanted to “fix it” and was “open to suggestions”.

Crozier could then be heard expressing her disappointment and anger at Deeming, arguing that the opposition had the Andrews government “on the ropes”, particularly on integrity matters.

“I am beyond furious because of the work we have done, the time we have put in,” she said.

Pesutto then raised the prospect of Deeming potentially becoming an independent MP.

Pesutto seemed particularly annoyed with her association with Katherine Deves, with whom she also celebrated with after the rally. A year earlier, Deves, then the federal Liberal candidate for Warringah, had been found to have compared her anti-trans activism to resistance against the Nazis.

Pesutto: “We could find Daniel Andrews robbing a 7-Eleven, but if you bring Katherine Deves down, everyone’s going to go, ‘Don’t care about that, Katherine Deves is in town’. That’s all it’s going to be about.”

At that point, Bach chimed in to say to Deeming: “I don’t think there is a way forward. These are your people.”

“I’m very sorry it’s come to this, but I just don’t feel I have a choice.”

John Pesutto

The four members of the leadership team – Pesutto, Crozier, Southwick and Bach – then leave the room.

When they re-enter, Deeming is told there would be a motion for the parliamentary party room to expel her.

Pesutto suggested she could resign before any vote if she wanted. “I’m very sorry it’s come to this, but I just don’t feel I have a choice.”

Why was the meeting recorded?

The recording was made by Southwick, who only revealed it existed nine months later when he told Pesutto.

The Age has asked Southwick why he recorded the meeting and why he kept it secret, but he has not responded.

Under Victorian law, parties can record audio as long as they themselves are a party to the conversation.

Why does the recording matter?

Deeming’s lawyer says it shows the meeting had been a “pile-on” and that the leadership had already decided to boot her from the party.

Moira Deeming arrives at the Federal Court on Monday.Credit: Jason South

Southwick, who is due to provide evidence later in the trial, will likely be asked why he made the recording and why he failed to tell his colleagues for so long.

Deeming claims she was blindsided by the meeting, saying she was at home on a Sunday when summoned to Spring Street. She initially said she couldn’t attend as she’d need to arrange a babysitter for her four children, but was told by Crozier that she didn’t have a choice.

What happens next?

The defamation trial continues for another two weeks.

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