Cancel culture is a boogeyman: feminist author Roxane Gay

In an essay in her celebrated book Bad Feminist, author and social critic Dr Roxane Gay wrote that women were better off than they had ever been – but that was not nearly good enough.

In the decade since the book’s publication, Donald Trump came and went from presidency of the United States, the landmark abortion decision Roe v Wade was overturned by the US Supreme Court, numerous states across the country banned abortion entirely and a separate Supreme Court decision allowed for-profit corporations to deny their employees birth control on the company health insurance plan.

So does Gay still think women are making progress?

“Unfortunately, we have lost ground instead of continuing to gain ground the way we were, which is distressing at best, and certainly disheartening and disappointing,” she says. “To think that now in the United States, politicians, mostly men, are debating whether or not women have a right to birth control is unbelievable. It’s simply unbelievable. And yet here we are. In many states, of course, abortion has been banned. And the list goes on and on. Women are not dealing with most of the challenges that we dealt with in, say, 1945. But are we better off now than we were in 1975? Probably not, in some ways.”

Roxane Gay with her wife, writer and designer Debbie Millman.Credit: Getty Images

Gay is coming to Melbourne for the Now or Never Festival in August and will also appear in Sydney at the Festival of Dangerous Ideas. She says the concept of genuine equality is in itself a dangerous idea.

“In general, people don’t like progress,” she says. “They say they like progress, but really, not so much. And people in power in particular don’t process progress. They don’t like the changing of the status quo when it starts to feel like a threat. And for many people, equality feels threatening. When they have all the power, they don’t want to cede any of that power. They don’t want to cede any of that privilege.”

Now though, Gay says, there is a lot of pushback. “And it’s not only with regard to gender equity, we’re seeing it in terms of race and diversity, equity and inclusion. We’re seeing it in terms of LGBTQ rights and particularly trans rights,” she says. “So I think that progress is, in some ways, cyclical more than a straight arrow in either direction, but a lot of people pay very steep prices for some of the downturns on those cycles of change.”

That is not to say that Gay thinks the fight for social justice is futile, or that ground lost can’t be regained. “People who are marginalised, we’re not going back to the way it was. You can kick and scream all you want and you can throw up all of these obstacles, but we are not going back to having no rights and having no say in how we lead our lives. So I do think that this current roadblock, for lack of a better word, will not last forever.”

Bad Feminist is getting a 10th anniversary republication with a cover in bright pink, Gay’s favourite colour. The essays cover everything from women’s rights to trigger warnings to competitive Scrabble and the Sweet Valley High books (which Gay adores). Those who subscribe to her newsletter, The Audacity, or read her opinion pieces in The New York Times and elsewhere know she has strong opinions on matters political and pop culture, serious and trivial, and she doesn’t shy away from controversies. She took comedian Dave Chappelle to task for transphobic jokes, and she says the threat of cancel culture is a furphy.

Very few people, she says, are actually ever cancelled. “It’s a boogeyman that is used by people who are afraid that if they speak what they really believe, and they know what they really believe is wrong, then they are going to face consequences,” she says. “And so they create this threat of ‘oh, cancel culture’, and they dismiss the idea that anyone could possibly take issue with their beliefs. But guess what? We absolutely can take issue with your beliefs.”

There is a difference, Gay says, between being cancelled and facing just consequences. She pulled her podcast from Spotify because it hosts conspiracy theorist Joe Rogan’s show; pulled an upcoming book from Simon and Schuster because it was publishing alt-right provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos; and she’s quit Twitter, largely because of Elon Musk. “I think that Musk is toxic. I think that he’s dangerous, and I don’t really want to play in his sandbox.”

Gay believes those who espouse racist, sexist, homophobic or otherwise hateful beliefs should face repercussions for those beliefs, which is not censorship but a reasonable response. But a strong proponent of restorative justice, she does believe there is a way back for those who have said or done things they later regret.

“I think there should always be a path for redemption. I don’t think that, as a culture, we’ve figured out what that path is and how to navigate it. But I also believe that yes, you should go sit in the corner and think about what you did,” she says.

“I think that so many people try to come back like within weeks, if not days of a real failure of integrity or a real crime, and try to undo the damage that they’ve done,” but it takes more time than that.

“I don’t know what the time length is, I don’t think there’s like a singular time. Maybe for some people, it’s five years, for someone else at six months. And I also think that the people who have been actively harmed by someone who should face consequences should have a say in what the path to redemption looks like, if they want it.”

TAKE 7: THE ANSWERS ACCORDING TO ROXANE GAY

1. Worst habit? Procrastination.
2. Greatest fear? Disappointing people.
3. The line that stayed with you? ”The pieces I am, she gather them and give them back to me and all the right order. It’s good, you know, when you’ve got a woman who is a friend of your mind,” from Toni Morrison’s Beloved.
4. Biggest regret? All the time I lost waiting for someone who couldn’t love me the way I needed (I found my happy ending nonetheless).
5. Favourite book? The Age of Innocence by Edith Wharton.
6. The artwork/song you wish was yours? I don’t want to claim the work of other artists as my own.
7. If you could time travel, where would you choose to go? I’m black and a woman and queer so ...

One person who will probably never walk that redemptive path, in Gay’s view, is Trump, whom she describes as Hitler. “The other choice is like, Hitler’s apprentice,” she says, then immediately backtracks.

“Well, that’s a bit much. [Joe] Biden has done some very good things as president, but for example, he’s passed a recent executive order that is just as harsh, if not more harsh, than what the Republicans have set forth as ideas for how to manage our southern border.”

At 191cm tall, Gay is a striking figure, and is often stopped by fans. “I’m tall, I’m fat, I’m black, I have tattoos. I think that I’m more identifiable than a lot of writers. So I do tend to get stopped everywhere I go. It’s not constant, I’m not like Beyoncé. But not a day goes by when I leave the house that I’m not recognised, which is just surprising.”

But she is never irritated by the interruptions.

“There are times when people are so excited and like this is a big moment, and my wife and I happen to be on a date and so I’ll just gently say: ‘You know, I really appreciate your enthusiasm and thank you for coming over. You’re so kind, but you know, we’re actually having a special meal tonight.’

“And people inevitably completely understand. It doesn’t annoy me. If it started to annoy me, I would know that I need to take a break.”

Roxane Gay will appear at Carriageworks in Sydney, as part of the Festival of Dangerous Ideas (24-25 August) and at the Melbourne Town Hall (27 August), presented by The Wheeler Centre and Now or Never.

The Booklist is a weekly newsletter for book lovers from books editor Jason Steger. Get it delivered every Friday.