How to spot a killer: Dr Ann Burgess speaks to Gary Jubelin on I Catch Killers

A psychiatric nurse who worked with the FBI and faced off with notorious killers including Ted Bundy, has lifted the lid on how to spot a murderer. Listen to the podcast.

A psychiatric clinical nurse who pioneered criminal profiling with the FBI, studying rapists and killers including Ted Bundy, Edmund Kemper and the Menendez brothers, has lifted the lid on how to spot a murderer.

Ann Burgess, 88, was an expert in sex crimes, victimology and criminal psychology by the time she was asked to help train FBI special agents in rape investigation in the 1970s. Her story inspired the Netflix series, Mindhunter.

Through interviews with victims, Dr Burgess and her colleagues found sexual violence was more about power and control than the sex itself, which was a unique perspective at the time. That led to groundbreaking research that changed the way criminal behaviour was understood, and ultimately resulted in killers being caught.

Now, Dr Burgess has opened up about the core traits of serial killers in an interview with former NSW homicide detective Gary Jubelin on the podcast, I Catch Killers.

Dr Burgess told Jubelin the killers her unit interviewed went through the same six steps before they committed murder.

Dr Ann Burgess has studied rapists and killers since the 1970s. Picture: Getty

Former NSW homicide detective Gary Jubelin spoke with Dr Ann Burgess on the podcast, I Catch Killers. Picture: Sam Ruttyn

“It always starts with a grudge, something that bothers the person that they’re upset or angry about,” she said.

“And then it can develop into what we call an ideology, where they align themselves with a group – that may or may not happen – and then they do research and that’s where they look around and find out other people are feeling [the same way].”

They’re broken down further into a groups called incels, nationalists or extremists. After the research stage, they start to plan the killing and set a date. The final step is murder.

An example she gave was Elliot Rodger who was an incel, an ‘involuntary celibate’, who sat in his BMW in May 2014 and filmed himself going on a hate-filled, misogynistic rant about how he had never kissed a girl at age 22, despite being the “ideal gentleman”.

Incels are usually male and are frustrated by their lack of sexual experiences. They often also believe women are too sexually selective and use their privilege and sexuality for social advancement.

In the video, Rodgers said he had “no choice but to exact revenge on the society” that had denied him sex and love. He uploaded the video to YouTube and tried to get into a sorority house because he had always desired the women in there.

Ann Burgess was a psychiatric nurse who ended up changing the way the FBI handles serial killers. Picture: Boston College

Ann Burgess was played in the Netflix series Mindhunter by Anna Torv.

They wouldn’t let him in, so he shot and killed two women outside. He then stabbed three men, fatally shot another, and wounded 14 firing at random from his car. He then turned the gun on himself.

Dr Burgess told Jubelin: “We use him as an example of the steps to violence or the steps to murder, and that’s our research now – we’re really trying to see if we can get them early enough before they act.”

“Most of them, many give a warning.”

She said those at risk of becoming violent offenders may have learned dangerous behaviours from their parents, largely in the form of abuse.

Violent criminals often kill to act out a fantasy they’ve harboured.

“[Offenders] themselves have been traumatised in some way that has stuck with them,” she said.

“We’ve used a theory that a fantasy that gets nurtured and acted out, it’s got to come from somewhere, and it could have come from something that happened to them and that’s their way of expressing it.”

During interviews, convicted killers would boast about what they did to their victims and what they could do, but then shut down when asked about their own lives.

She said: “During childhood and growing up, those were some of the very [same] acts that they couldn’t talk about, and it usually was going to be something related to some sexual act that had been done to them.”

Want to hear more? Listen to the podcast.

Originally published as How to spot a killer: Dr Ann Burgess speaks to Gary Jubelin on I Catch Killers