The Breakdown podcast: key players
The Breakdown podcast explores how rugby went broke. These are the people you’ll hear from, and about, in each episode.
Australian rugby once had $40 million in the bank. Crowds over 100,000. TV audiences of 3 million. Today the Wallabies have sunk to their lowest world ranking ever. Off the field rugby is a “war zone” with a $20 million deficit last year alone.
The Breakdown is a gripping podcast investigation from The Australian, exploring just how far “the game they play in heaven” has fallen — and why. Jessica Halloran and Claire Harvey have interviewed everyone from ex-PMs and billionaires to Wallabies legends, boardroom insiders and the volunteers battling to keep the game alive. Raw and emotional, The Breakdown is the new binge-listen everyone will be talking about.
Subscribers of The Australian can hear the series before the rest of the nation, exclusively via The Australian app.
Download the app via: Apple App Store | Google Play Store
Listen to The Breakdown now
In the app: swipe to the Podcasts section
On the web: Visit theaustralian.com.au/thebreakdown
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These are the people you’ll hear from, and about, in each episode of The Breakdown.
Episode 1
David Campese
Australia’s greatest ever try-scorer. Russell Crowe gifted his prized Gladiator mask in return for his 1991 World Cup jersey. Campese can’t get a full-time coaching job in Australian rugby’s elite competition. Read more
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Teki Tuipulotu
Former rugby union footballer who played internationally for Tonga. Now President of the Blacktown Scorpions. He speaks about rugby league agents raiding the junior rugby union talent. Calls out the racism he has endured in the code. Read more
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Khoder Nasser
Powerful player agent representing Sonny Bill Williams and Quade Cooper. He also calls out the racism and the lack of respect for Pacific Island background players. Suggests Sonny Bill Williams could have played for the Wallabies. Read more
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Sonny Bill Williams
Superstar athlete. His agent Khoder Nasser says he could have been an option for the Wallabies, but the ARU didn’t make an approach to SBW. Went on to win two World Cups with the All Blacks. Read more
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Nick Farr-Jones
Former Wallabies captain. Walked away from the game in 2015 because he was sick of the “wastage” by Australian rugby’s then administration. He has since returned to to help the game revive itself and is positive the code is now on the right track.
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Episode 2
John Eales
Former Wallabies captain and long-time ARU board member. Led the Wallabies through a golden era. He says at the grassroots level the AFL and rugby league pose a “complex” threat to the game.
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John Howard
Former PM, devoted Wallabies fan. Has served as a mentor to a number of Wallabies coaches and players including John Eales and Michael Cheika.
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John O’Neill
Former ARU CEO. Led Australian rugby into its golden era. Says rugby is at the risk of turning into soccer, where all the best players play overseas on far more lucrative contracts.
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John Coates
Olympic chief. Warned his friend John O’Neill to move to “lock up” the World Cup $40m windfall, so to not let them “piss it up against a wall”. O’Neill listened to Coates but the ARU board moved against the rugby CEO when he told them he wanted to put the windfall into an investment trust.
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Episode 3
Mat Rogers
Dual code football star. One of several rugby league stars who switched codes and played for the Wallabies. He reflects on the great times the game gave him. Says the 2003 World Cup final loss still “haunts” him.
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Justin Harrison
Former Wallaby and RUPA boss, now leads the player’s union. Says 2003 is still a heartbreaking memory and shares a funny anecdote about at a party at The Lodge.
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George Gregan
Former Wallabies captain. Gregan reflects on the great times of the game, says it can get back to its best with a stronger focus on pathways to the top.
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Phil Kearns
Former Wallabies captain. Kearns has seen the demise of the game at the grassroots - the rugby club he played at as a junior has closed down - and is now on a mission to help the game back to its best. Is the CEO of Australia’s 2027 World Cup bid.
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Episode 4
Bill Pulver
Former CEO. Remarked he had found his dream job when he took over rugby but his reign ended on the same day his administration announced the Western Force would be booted from the game.
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Alan Jones
Former Wallabies coach and broadcaster. Jones says we once taught the world how to play the game and now we are begging people to play us.
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Andrew Forrest
Billionaire and Western Force owner. Forrest reflects on the pain of his franchise being cut from the Super Rugby comp in 2017 and tells the incredible story of how he put $50 million dollars on the table and the ARU turned it down.
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Episode 5
Israel Folau
Footballer and Christian, one of the Wallabies best and most controversial players. Was cut from the code after posting homophobic comments on Instagram. Received a $4 million payout from RA. He wants to play rugby again.
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Raelene Castle
Former Rugby Australia CEO. Australia’s first ever female CEO of a major football code. Weathered a wave of criticism for her handling of Folau’s outburst and the broadcast deal. Departed soon after a group of Wallabies captains called for the game’s administration to “stand aside”.
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Michael Cheika
Former Wallabies coach. Took the Wallabies to the World Cup final in 2015. Finished up last year as coach. He opens up in the podcast about the “Folau” situation and how he suffered “threats” after Rugby Australia took their stand to cut the superstar from the code.
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Episode 6
Ann Sherry
Former Australian rugby board member and accomplished businesswoman who served on Australian rugby’s board from 2012 to 2019. Says there was a “sexist” attitude to the appointment of Rugby Australia’s first ever female CEO.
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Stephen Moore
Former Wallabies captain. Moore is from a small town Rockhampton. He observes that decline of the game in the bush.
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Hamish McLennan
Current Rugby Australia chair. McLennan tells how the game nearly became “amateur” and says there is hope for the future.
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Jeff Messitt
Fan. The Wavers Falcons rugby club secretary is a passionate, hard-working volunteer. He says the game is in a “catastrophic” state at the grassroots level.