QandA: Politicians ‘shouldn’t be surprised that we’re hard on them’

Monday’s QandA scrutinised the themes of trust and ethics in a showdown over public probity.

QandA host Hamish Macdonald led a fierce debate on ethics in politics and public life on Monday.

In 2004, John Howard made the question “who do you trust” central to his re-election campaign. That same question today seems to yield the answer “not many” from a lot of Australians.

Monday’s QandA scrutinised the themes of trust and ethics in a showdown over public probity in the wake of the $30m Sydney Airport land scandal, the revelations around the relationship of disgraced NSW MP Daryl Maguire and Premier Gladys Berejiklian, and the $20,000 Australia Post Cartier watch scandal.

In front of a socially distanced audience, QandA offered a panel of politicians from both sides of the house, disgraced NAB chair Ken Henry, Ethics Centre chief Dr Simon Longstaff, and Indigenous scholar Dani Larkin, to chew the cud on ethics.

How can truth and transparency be more consistently embedded in Australian politics? #QandA pic.twitter.com/9H2zTtgsiY

— QandA (@QandA) October 26, 2020

With an opening salvo from the audience calling for truth and transparency to be made mandatory, Dr Longstaff made clear that every lie politicians tell undermines the consent the public gave to the political system.

“What we have to be concerned about is ensuring that those who exercise public power do so exclusively in the public interest, and I think what has been really upsetting a lot of Australians is that has not been happening,” he said.

“Too often, they’ve seen it being a partial exercise of power for private interests or private political interests, but I think the deepest thing of all which has troubled people is that they feel that in every aspect of their lives, they’re held accountable, even for the slightest error they might make, whereas those people who have those considerable privileges of elected office in particular – not just them – seem never truly accountable for the things that they do.”

When asked why some scandals seemed to garner more outrage than others of comparatively more significant financial misconduct, such as the case of the Cartier watches, Ken Henry said it came down to relatability.

“People understand the circumstances in which they live. They understand how they’re treated as an employee. And they simply cannot understand how somebody in a different place with a different title can be treated in a completely different way,” he said.

Liberal MP Dave Sharm addresses the panel on Monday.

Mr Henry, who headed the Treasury Department from 2001 to 2011, said the lack of ministerial accountability over the Western Sydney airport land acquisition shows that old conventions were now dead.

“When I joined the Public Service, the doctrine of ministerial responsibility was in place… and what it meant was that if there was significant maladministration in a department or agency that was within the portfolio of the Minister, or there was a really bad policy and the policy went shonky, the Minister stood down,” he said.

“That was what the doctrine of ministerial responsibility meant. And it disappeared, I would say, at some stage in the Howard government years.”

Liberal MP Dave Sharma diasgreed, offering that the Sydney land scandal did not show a ministerial failure. But Dr Longstaff rejected his notion, noting it didn’t matter if the Minister wasn’t aware of the issue.

“The only way you can hold the executive who exercises power to account is by a Minister being held accountable to the people,” Dr Longstaff said.

USA has Bermuda triangle where a squadron of planes went missing, Australia has the Leppington triangle where taxpayers money disappears #QandA

— Peter Fox 🦊🇦🇺 (@Peter_Fox59) October 26, 2020

Mr Henry, the former NAB Chair, said politicians were subject to such a gruelling public gaze and held in such low esteem “because they keep disappointing us”.

“We expect a hell of a lot more of them than they normally deliver,” he said.

“They’ve demonstrated an ability to run the system well, in some places much better than in others but generally to run the system well in a crisis. We want them, don’t we, to be able to run the system well all of the time, right? That’s their responsibility. They shouldn’t be surprised that we’re hard on them.”

Dr Dani Larkin, part of the Senior Dialogue Leadership group for the Uluru Statement From The Heart, said many people were feeling frustration over an incongruity in the way the government acted.

“When I see the Prime Minister taking a holiday to Hawaii in the midst of bushfire seasons and people are losing lives and people are losing their property and small businesses, you know, all their investment they’ve put into that they’re losing, it is inappropriate behaviour and it is insensitive to what everyday Australians are going through right now,” she said.

“We are in the midst of a recession and we’ve come out of the bushfire season but then we’ve gone into a global pandemic and I think what the everyday Australian is feeling is, you know, this feeling of frustration because it’s so insensitive and it’s flippant expenditure of taxpayers’ dollars that we are all having to put up with.”

Why do the bankers get the gentle treatment with ethics lessons and indigenous people get thrown in the slammer? Switch that around #qanda

— 💧🐟Anj of Garigal (@garigalAnj) October 26, 2020

Labor opposition spokeswoman for education Tanya Plibersek said the lack of a national integrity committee was galling, and the latest scandals remind the public of the need for one.

“It’s very important that we have a national integrity commission and a strong one, not a toothless tiger, but also that we support the other organisations that hold public figures, like me, to account – the Australian National Audit Office, a free and diverse media, that means proper funding are to the ABC and it means media diversity,” she said.

Ms Plibersek called on the government to release the draft legislation for a federal integrity committee, noting it had sat on the desk of the lawyer general since 2019.

“Using COVID as an excuse, as the Prime Minister has done, just doesn’t cut it,” she said.

Ethics Centre chief Dr Longstaff noted the public could “see through” the excuses from the Prime Minister, noting it showed a lack of respect for the community.

“If you can have a Prime Minister who stands up and says, ‘We can’t cope with a promise we made’, what is it, two or three years ago? The public just doesn’t believe that,” he said.

However, she stopped short of criticising the Queensland government for its border closures.

“When you look at some of the decisions that are being made, you know, day by day, you would scratch your head sometimes and say, “Well, I’m not sure why that decision was made and not that decision,” but this is completely uncharted territory for any of us. It’s all new. It’s all happening for the first time,” she said.

People are so upset about $20,000 is watches by Australia Post yet where was the outrage when @SquigglyRick reported of repeated, outgoing and deliberate waste and unlawful activity in the NDIA?#QandA

— Mr_Nobody (@MrNobod59700898) October 26, 2020

Liberal Dave Sharma also declined to criticise Tasmania or South Australia for their respective border closures, saying that the NSW-Queensland closure is under “unique circumstances”.

“The New South Wales-Victoria border, less people objected to, but the Queensland-NSW border closure, I don’t think there was much health evidence to justify that closure, or at least not for the jurisdiction it has been in place for.”

Ms Plibersek said the federal government under Scott Morrison was too keen to point the finger at others and not accept its own failings.

“What troubles me is we have a federal government pointing the finger in different ways at different states and also risks to take responsibility for the things that are federal responsibilities, like aged care – completely a federal responsibility,” she said.

“Look at the terrible number of deaths in aged care in Victoria. Like the app that was supposed to help with contact tracing and we found out today it has found a total of 17 people for a $70 million spend. Like getting Australians home from overseas – we’ve still got about 30,000 Australians stuck overseas.”

“So instead of just pointing the finger at the states that they don’t like, how about the federal government takes responsibility for the things that are a federal responsibility and gets them right?”

The public does see through the excuses. I’ve just put forward a robust Bill - time for the Government to let us debate it. #BringOnDebate #qanda

— Helen Haines MP (@helenhainesindi) October 26, 2020