Pesutto-Deeming defamation fight: former MP ‘never surprised’ by covert Liberal meeting recordings

Schoolteacher Matthew Bach, a former Liberal MP, has flown from the UK to Melbourne to give evidence for John Pesutto in his defamation fight against expelled MP Moira Deeming.

Ex-Victorian MP Matthew Bach Matthew Bach has told a court he had been forewarned by former premier Ted Baillieu about internal Liberal Party meetings being secretly recorded and that he “wasn’t stunned” to learn a tape central to the defamation case against John Pesutto had surfaced.

Former senior Liberal MP Dr Bach, a schoolteacher in the UK, flew to Melbourne to appear before the Federal Court as a witness for Mr Pesutto in the Victorian Opposition Leader’s high-stakes defamation case brought against him by Ms Deeming.

Ms Deeming is suing Mr Pesutto over his efforts to expel her from the Liberal party room, and over allegations he falsely portrayed her as a Nazi sympathiser after the March 18, 2023, Melbourne Let Women Speak event was gatecrashed by neo-Nazis.

Dr Bach took to the witness box for a full day on Tuesday, and was probed on the March 19 2023 meeting secretly recorded by deputy Liberal leader David Southwick.

During the first week of the trial, details emerged of the leadership meeting between Mr Pesutto, Mr Bach, Mr Southwick, MP Georgie Crozier, the leader’s former chief of staff, Rodrigo Pintos-Lopez, and Ms Deeming, and the bombshell audio recording was played in court.

Mr Pesutto last week gave evidence that he learned of the existence of the tape either late last year or early this year; however, he failed to tell his lawyers about the recording until a week before the trial.

Mr Southwick is expected to give evidence for Mr Pesutto on Wednesday, with Ms Crozier to follow.

Dr Bach told the court that while he was not aware Mr Southwick had surreptitiously recorded the closed-door meeting at the time, he knew secret tapes were not uncommon.

He said that in 2022, on his first day in parliament, Mr Baillieu “pressed upon me that in the Liberal Party many things are taped”, and he recalled a previous incident in which two colleagues “got in somewhat of a barney”, which had been leaked.

“It never surprised me that meetings are taped … I wasn’t stunned to learn that a recording had surfaced,” Dr Bach told the court.

Former Liberal MP Matthew Bach arrives at Federal Court. Picture: NewsWire/ David Crosling

Leading defamation barrister Sue Chrysanthou, for Ms Deeming, asked Dr Bach if it would have been enough for her client to disavow Nazis, bigotry toward the transgender community and Nazi imagery and symbolism in the aftermath of the Let Women Speak rally.

“In my mind, at the time and still, it was a huge reputational problem for us to be tied to Mrs Deeming’s associates and so no, it wasn’t enough in my mind to broadly denounce Nazism … or transphobia,” Dr Bach responded.

“Mr (Daniel) Andrews used to regularly say ‘it’s the company you keep’ and he would score huge political points … Even going back to the rally during the lockdowns when there was no evidence tying any of our people to any of the people who behaved so badly at those rallies.”

He added that it was necessary to come up with a way forward that put distance between the Liberal Party and Ms Deeming’s “close associates”, women’s rights activists Kellie-Jay Keen and Angela Jones.

Mr Pesutto arrives at Federal Court. Picture: NewsWire/ David Crosling

Ms Chrysanthou argued it was irrational for her client, in the aftermath of the rally, to publicly condemn things the public and media were not aware of, referencing some of the material contained in the 15-page dossier circulated by Mr Pesutto’s office in a bid to garner support from MPs to vote in favour of the motion to expel Ms Deeming.

“To think that an organisation as effective as the Victorian Labor Party wouldn’t get this information and use it in such a devastating way against us is politically naive,” Dr Bach said.

The former MP said he would expect any member of the party to “run as fast as they possibly could in the other direction” if neo-Nazis attended a gathering they attended.

A March 27 partyroom meeting last year resolved to suspend Ms Deeming for nine months but she was then expelled in May.

Before the trial, Mr Pesutto privately settled two defamation suits launched against him by Ms Keen and Ms Jones, and offered an apology to the two women.

“I have never believed or intended to assert that Kellie-Jay Keen and Angela Jones are neo-Nazis. It is also now clear from public statements made by Ms Keen and Ms Jones that they share my belief that Nazism is odious and contemptible,” he said in a statement.

The trial continues.