John Pesutto denies he has lied over the expulsion of Moira Deeming as Libs face court

Victoria Liberal leader John Pesutto arrives at the Melbourne Federal Court. Picture: Aaron Francis / NewsWire

Bang on 3.20pm, John Pesutto shifted in the witness box, repositioning himself for the second hour of interrogation by Sue Chrysanthou, SC.

Court is one of those places where political optics don’t – or shouldn’t – matter much at all.

The Victorian Liberal leader will be judged on the evidence.

But Pesutto looked uncomfortable, like a man who so didn’t want to be in the Federal Court on a warm spring afternoon in Melbourne, and who can blame him?

Pesutto had been in the box for just over an hour and, really, the most telling commentary had already come from his barrister Matthew Collins, KC, who had preceded the Liberal leader.

Collins told the court the case wasn’t about whether the decision to expel Moira Deeming was politically justified. It was not an unfair dismissal case and it wasn’t about whether enough research had been done before Deeming was boned.

No, it was defamation and this is why Pesutto was in court.

This is an important point.

While his political colleagues will be judging Pesutto by the way he looked in the witness box, the facts of the case will decide ultimately whether he gets to keep the leadership.

Pesutto, a diminutive chap, was pretty much hammered by Chrysanthou, who suggested unkindly that some of the work by Pesutto and his team to get rid of Deeming had been like “an eight-year-old’s project” and flat out questioned whether he was telling the truth.

It’s her job to unsettle Pesutto and there will be more of it on Wednesday.

What Pesutto’s colleagues will be deeply interested in is why his deputy, David Southwick, chose to record one of the key meetings with Deeming. But Pesutto never got to hear it until a considerable amount of time later.

For those unfamiliar with the workings of the Victorian Liberal Party, recording other people is not that uncommon, especially when you don’t tell the other person.

It even contributed to the downfall of a premier, in Ted Baillieu.

Pesutto told the court that he had no idea that his deputy was recording the meeting with Deeming the day after she had spoken at the rally that was invaded by neo-Nazis.

Pesutto said he had never seen Southwick turn his phone on to capture the conversation.

When Southwick later told Pesutto about the recording – in late 2023 or early 2024 – the leader was “certainly surprised”.

“I didn’t think it was my material or evidence to disclose,’’ he said.

Pesutto said he never asked for a copy of the recording because he “didn’t want it in my possession”, making it an electronic hot potato.

Others will be asking why the conversation was ever recorded and what that means, if anything at all, for Southwick’s hold on the deputy leadership.

Like every other question, it will be answered only once the court case is resolved.