Gary Jubelin recorded person of interest Paul Savage to protect himself

Gary Jubelin says he recorded four conversations with a person of interest in the William Tyrrell investigation to protect himself.

Former NSW Detective Gary Jubelin at the Downing Centre court in Sydney. Picture: AAP.

Former homicide detective Gary Jubelin believes he is the subject of a witch hunt by the NSW Police Force, of which some members believe the disappearance of William Tyrrell is a crime that will never be solved, a court has heard.

Mr Jubelin, 57, led the investigation for four years before being charged with four offences related to his handling of the case.

William disappeared from Kendall, on the NSW mid-north coast, on September 12, 2014.

Mr Jubelin is accused of recording four conversations with a “person of interest”, Paul Savage, 75, without proper warrants.

Mr Savage lived diagonally opposite the house from which William disappeared.

In a taped interview with police investigators, Mr Jubelin said he recorded the conversations to protect himself from allegations that he was threatening or harassing Mr Savage.

He also suspected Mr Savage might commit suicide, such was the pressure he was under.

Mr Jubelin admitted recording the calls during an interview with Police Standards Command, a tape of which was played to the Downing Centre local court on Monday.

Mr Jubelin is expected to take the stand later this week.

A former colleague, Detective Louise Rodden, agreed in court that homicide commander Scott Cook had expressed the view that an investigation into William’s disappearance “should be discontinued” because there was no longer any chance of “success”.

Mr Cook is yet to give evidence.

In the interview with Police Standards, Mr Jubelin said he recorded four conversations with Mr Savage to protect his “lawful interests”, which is a defence under the relevant legislation.

He was concerned Mr Savage might say “I threatened to kill him. We’re talking an irrational person … We’re targeting an elderly man. His wife had died. It wasn’t beyond the realms of possibility that he’d commit suicide. There was pressure being applied to him.

“I wasn’t hiding anything in the way I was doing it. I thought it ­totally appropriate … It wasn’t ­surreptitious.”

Asked if Mr Savage was aware he was being recorded, Mr Jubelin said: “No.”

He told investigators that detectives had heated arguments over who to target in the investi­gation. “There was a school of thought that they (the foster parents) were involved. I respect that view,” he said. One colleague “was saying she felt the foster parents could be involved. I personally didn’t see it. But again, let’s look at it. We did a major operation.

“I invited them in, and they normally think it’s a casual conversation, I said niceties are done, you’re not going to like it.

“You’re going to hate me.”

 

He said the interrogation was a “fairly intense interview, when you’re talking parents of an abducted child. It didn’t make me feel comfortable but taking into ­account other people’s views.”

He said most detectives were now satisfied William’s foster parents weren’t involved. There is no evidence to link them to the crime.

“This investigation has broken a lot of people,” Mr Jubelin said.

He gave an account of an altercation with former colleague ­Detective Craig Lambert, who didn’t believe Mr Savage could be responsible for the crime.

He said Mr Lambert had said: “You’re just picking on him. He stormed out, down the hallway, threw his phone, threw his keys, and said, oh f..k it, I’m out of here.

“He wanted to fight me. He’s a six-times Australian kick boxing champion. He’s coming at me to fight me. He’s been stopped by other people. He’s spitting venom: Come on, I’ll have you now.”

Ms Rodden said she saw the two men being “separated … they were both being physically restrained.” She heard Mr Lambert saying: “I’ll take you anytime, come on.”

She agreed the quality of the lawful recordings was “very poor” and some listening devices failed.

“Yes, that happened on numerous occasions,” she said.

The signal might drop “and completely miss hours of conversation”.

When Mr Savage was alone, “he would ramble on … constant conversation” about all kinds of topics. As a consequence, the team found it hard to keep up with the task of listening to the tapes.

The trial is continuing.