‘Evolutionary biologist’ to be called in trans defamation case

A Federal Court judge has acknowledged the ‘strongly-held emotions’ on both sides of the transgender debate while warning there be ‘no intimidation’ of those coming and going.

Founder of the now-defunct female-only networking app Giggle for Girls Sall Grover leaving court on Tuesday. Picture: Jane Dempster/The Australian

An evolutionary biologist is set to give evidence in a case brought by an Australian transgender woman against a female-only social media app and its founder for discrimination, a court heard.

Roxanne Tickle, who underwent gender affirming surgery in 2019 and is now designated as female on her birth certificate, will argue she was discriminated against on the grounds of gender identity by the Giggle for Girls app and its owner Sall Grover when she was denied access to the app, which was otherwise available to cisgender women.

It is the first time a case alleging gender identity discrimination has been heard by the Federal Court, leading Sex Discrimination Commissioner Anna Cody to sit in on the proceedings on Tuesday.

Ms Tickle claims she was initially accepted into the app when she submitted a ‘selfie’ through Giggle’s third-party artificial intelligence tool but was later blocked by Ms Grover.

Lawyer Alex Rashidi (L) and founder of the female-only networking app Giggle for Girls Sall Grover (R) at the Federal Court in Sydney court today. Picture: Jane Dempster/The Australian.

Ms Grover’s defence barrister Bridie Nolan said they would call the evidence Colin Wright, an evolutionary biologist, whose expert report and affidavit would suggest it was “objectively and scientifically reasonable” for Ms Grover to identify Ms Tickle as of the “male species”.

In that evidence, Mr Wright would argue there are only two sexes, and there can only be two sexes, the court heard.

Ms Nolan argued the Giggle for Girls app was designed “for the purpose of achieving equality between men and women in public life by providing an online refuge” and that a person can take “special measures” in these circumstances.

Ms Nolan outlined how in August 2018, Ms Grover was in trauma therapy related to her experiences of sexual harassment as a screenwriter in Hollywood, when the idea was born for an app that would “create a little corner of the internet where women all over the world could have refuge away from males”.

Roxanne Tickle leaving court. Picture: Jane Dempster/The Australian

“(A) place without harassment, mansplaining, dick pics ... and other online male pattern violence … experienced by women,” Ms Nolan said.
But even in its nascency, as early as February 7, 2020, the app came under attack online, the court heard. Despite having 20,000 users at one point, Ms Grover made a decision to shut down the app in July, 2022.

But Ms Tickle’s barrister Georgina Costello KC, said excluding a transgender woman from a female-only app was not an “authorised measure” for achieving “substantive equality” between men and women “because Ms Tickle is a woman”.

“What you see here is really a series of artificial, after-the-fact justifications for conduct which is really discrimination against transgender women,” she said.

Ms Costello launched her opening submissions by stating that Ms Tickle pleads “that she is a woman” - a fact, she said, Giggle for Girls and Ms Grover “flatly deny”.

“The evidence will show that Ms Tickle is a woman in that she has a birth certificate stating she is a woman, she had gender affirmation surgery, she perceives herself as a woman, she represents as a woman, she uses a woman’s name, she feels in her mind psychologically that she is a women,” Ms Costello said.

Ms Tickle briefly entered the witness box to share how she had “lived as a woman” since 2017.

She said she went through a hormonal transition, gender affirmation surgery and a social transition, which included changing her sex markers with government departments.

“Up until this instance everybody treated me as a woman,” she said.

“I do from time to time get frowns and stares and questioning looks, which is quite disconcerting … but then they will let me go by and go about my business.”

Ms Tickle is seeking aggravated damages as a result of being repeatedly told she was not a woman and because Giggle for Girls and Ms Grover “incited significant negativity in a deluge of communications online”, the court heard.

Federal Court Justice Robert Bromwich acknowledged at the outset the “strongly-held views and emotions” of supporters on both sides of the transgender debate who “cannot tolerate … a view contrary to their own”.

For this reason, Justice Bromwich did not allow a live-stream of the proceedings and warned that there should be “no intimidation or harassment” of anyone arriving or leaving this court house.

Ahead of the commencement of proceedings on Tuesday, a group of about 12 supporters of Ms Grover stood outside the court with banners reading “woman, adult, human, female”. Some wore purple, green and white scarves - the colours of the suffragettes.

A short time later, about 20 trans-rights protestors arrived, holding a large sign that read “Turfs Off Our Turf”.

The hearing continues on Wednesday.