‘Backstabbing and rumour-mongering’: How anti-Semitic lawyers denigrated women

The two Sydney lawyers who engaged in sickening anti-Semitic exchanges face investigation, as new messages reveal the pair called female colleagues ‘irrational’ and prone to ‘snitching, backstabbing and rumour-mongering’.

Former BlackBay Lawyers partner Justin Carroll, left, and Yianni van Gelder.

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The two Sydney lawyers who engaged in sickening anti-Semitic exchanges as they plotted to leave a prominent legal firm face possible investigation and disciplinary action, as more messages reveal the pair called female colleagues “irrational” and prone to “snitching, backstabbing and rumour-mongering”.

WhatsApp messages obtained by The Australian, showing former BlackBay Lawyers partner Justin Carroll and colleague Yianni van Gelder denigrating Jews and laughing at the “Holohoax” and the “Schlomo-caust”, have stunned the Sydney legal world.

The Executive Council of Australian Jewry intends to make a complaint to the NSW Legal Services Commissioner over the conduct of the two solicitors.

Speaking before Passover, prominent Sydney silk and ECAJ deputy president Robert Goot SC said the ECAJ viewed the remarks made by the two lawyers extremely seriously.

“The community was appalled at the repeated use of hateful anti-Semitic canards by the solicitors,” Mr Goot said.

“The question for the NSW Legal Services Commissioner is whether anyone who holds such extreme prejudices is an appropriate person to be entrusted with the duty to act professionally towards colleagues and clients who are members of the same groups towards whom those prejudices are directed.”

Now newly discovered messages reveal how the pair sought to hide “Operation Barbarossa”, their plot to set up a rival law firm while allegedly taking clients and confidential information with them.

Mr Carroll, 54, and Mr van Gelder, 28, also discussed their plan for an “anti-feminine” policy to ensure that women did not spread gossip in the new firm, with some remarks apparently aimed at BlackBay founder and managing partner Victoria-Jane Otavski.

In one WhatsApp conversation critical of a decision made by Ms Otavski, Mr Carroll says that “most women are not cold-bloodedly rational”, to which Mr van Gelder agrees: “No way. That’s why they aren’t leaders usually.”

“Or killers,” Mr Carroll adds.

“The policy that we should adopt at our firm is one of ‘radical transparency’ so that there is no snitching and backstabbing and rumour-mongering,” Mr Carroll proposes.

“Basically, an anti-feminine policy … if you wanted to say something about someone, the person about whom you had something to say had to be present and confronted with it.”

“The concept of that would be unfathomable by most women,” Mr van Gelder responds.

“Ha ha, yes, probably,” Mr Carroll agrees.

Earlier this year Mr Carroll sent Mr van Gelder a link to the X page of a notoriously racist and sexist account that displayed details of a Facebook group called “Unhappily Married To A Filipina or Foreigner Help Group”.

ECAJ deputy president Robert Goot SC.

The link brings up a crude cartoon of a man having sex with an Asian woman, accompanied by obscene and demeaning comments about the woman.

“Just in case you’re still seeing that Filipino girl,” Mr Carroll said.

“I might need to join that group soon,” Mr van Gelder replies.

“I hear the danger lies where they think you’re wealthy and later learn that you’re not,” Mr Carroll said. “In your case, you’re starting in the right order.”

The messages also reveal how Mr Carroll had denied to Ms Otavski and BlackBay co-founder Henry Jungnitsch that he intended to “poach” anyone from the firm, and warned Mr van Gelder when he resigned “to make it clear that you are doing so of your own accord and not at my instigation”.

“What I have in mind is trying to get from BlackBay as many matters as possible for the new venture that will allow us from day one to have clients generating fees.”

Mr Carroll tells Mr van Gelder their new website showed up as being “unsecured” and someone had told him it made them look “unprofessional”. Mr Carroll says he explained that “we’ve been caught unprepared because of our sudden terminations”.

Mr Carroll is enthusiastic about Mr van Gelder’s idea to copy BlackBay files on to a portable hard drive but asks: “Is there any way that they can see us sending emails to our private email accounts with precedents attached to them? I just don’t wanna be accused of taking confidential information.”

BlackBay Lawyers managing partner Victoria-Jane Otavski depicted with former employee Yianni van Gelder (right). Picture: Supplied

“They are not supposed to have access to your email, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were able to access it after you leave,” Mr van Gelder replies. “I would avoid leaving an email paper trail.”

“Good idea. In fact, that’s an excellent idea.” Mr Carroll says. “That way, we can really load up. That won’t leave any trace, will it?

“It could, but you would need a very savvy tech person to figure it out,” Mr van Gelder responds.

“If that’s what it takes, I’m prepared to take that risk,” Mr Carroll says.

BlackBay has now launched legal action in the NSW Supreme Court against Mr Carroll and Mr van Gelder for the return of confidential information and delivery of computers, phones and electronic devices for forensic analysis. Mr van Gelder on May 16 is separately set to defend five domestic violence charges including choking and assault causing actual bodily harm, with an application by police for an apprehended domestic violence order for mention on the same day.

The pair face mounting calls for an investigation into their anti-Semitic diatribes by the NSW Legal Services Commissioner, which may refer complaints of professional misconduct to the NSW Law Society.

Such misconduct includes behaviour “which would be reasonably regarded as disgraceful or dishonourable by the person’s professional brethren of good repute and competency”.

Prominent silk Julian McMahon SC, while not wishing to comment on the particular case, pointed to s.5 of Legal Profession Uniform Law Australian Solicitors’ Conduct Rules 2015, which requires that a solicitor must not engage in conduct, in the course of legal practice or otherwise, that demonstrates that the solicitor is not a fit and proper person to practise law, or is likely to diminish public confidence in the administration of justice, or bring the profession into disrepute.

In addition, under s.45 of the Legal Profession Uniform Law (NSW) a designated local regulatory authority must not grant or renew an Australian practising certificate if it considers that the applicant is not a fit and proper person.

Mr McMahon told The Australian: “Anti-Semitism, Holocaust denial and similar attitudes have no place in the legal profession or in society at all. Dehumanising attitudes and words of anti-Semitic hatred are fuel for contempt, and for violence.”

The Law Society may initiate proceedings in the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal (NCAT) against the solicitor for either professional misconduct or unsatisfactory professional conduct.

NCAT may recommend the removal of the solicitor’s name from the roll of lawyers kept by the Supreme Court of NSW; suspend or impose conditions on the solicitor’s practising certificate, and; caution or reprimand the solicitor.

Mr Carroll told The Australian the information was confidential and that he intended to take legal action against the newspaper.

“The material has been improperly taken from me,” he said, but declined to respond to questions about the anti-Semitic statements in the messages.

In a statement, Mr van Gelder told The Australian: “The thoughtless comments were taken from a private conversation, out of context, and were not intended to be taken seriously. I am sorry they have been published and have caused hurt and concern. They do not reflect my views or feelings.”