Inside Phoebe Burgess‘ next big move
After life as she knew it was unceremoniously dismantled, Phoebe Burgess has emerged more resilient and, via her newest project, resolved to share the stories that bind Australian women.
It’s a day before the Vogue photo shoot at her parent’s property in Bowral, New South Wales, and Phoebe Burgess is nervous about being photographed. “I haven’t really done anything to prepare,” she jokes, lamenting the lack of time in her schedule for a facial or even to get her eyebrows done. “But it’s too late now!”
It’s hard to believe that the 33-year-old, golden-haired Instagram influencer, with a following of more than 86k would be worried. “But that’s just it,” she says. “Instagram is your very best self on your very best day. It’s a tiny snapshot of your life; it’s not reality.”
Reality, Burgess says, involves running after her two small children, Poppy, five, and Billy, three, in activewear and gumboots around the muddy farm in the Southern Highlands, where she now lives with her parents.
“Beautiful chaos” is how she describes her average day.
“I get up from the bed I share with my daughter at the crack of dawn, then we all do our farm chores, like feeding the eight horses and the chickens. The kids have plants they take care of. I’m toilet training Billy at the moment… Most of the time, it’s not very glamorous!”
It’s fitting then, that Burgess would helm a new podcast for Vogue called Under the Gloss. Beginning this month, Burgess, who at 21, was one of the youngest people to ever work in the Channel 7 newsroom, before her pivot to being the news and entertainment writer at Cleo magazine, sees it as a return to her first love: human interest stories.
“I’ve always been interested in people and what they have to say,” Burgess explains of her hope to create an intimate space to cover issues that are important to women.
“Vogue has always been known as an aspirational fashion bible, but it’s also a publication of immense substance, filled with people having important conversations,” she says. “I want this podcast to be a real reflection of that.”
Claire Harvey, editorial director of The Australian, who Burgess considers a mentor, believes she’s a natural fit. “Phoebe’s got a certain magic about her,” says Harvey. “She’s warm, intelligent and deeply soulful. She’s also great fun, and she’ll bring that to the podcast.”
Burgess, who worked at Zimmermann and Ginger & Smart while completing her media and communications degree at Sydney University, says she hopes to stack the podcast with plenty of celebrity interviews, while also expanding on her love of design.
“Fashion has always been an escape for me,” she says, citing Phoebe Philo’s time at Céline as a major influence. “I really oscillate between beautiful feminine prints and more masculine, clean lines. Clothes are not just about how you look, but the way an outfit can make you feel, too. It’s easy to dismiss fashion as frivolous, but putting together an outfit is often the truest expression of who you are; it can really elevate your mood.”
Weightier topics including discussions around motherhood, grief and divorce, will complete the podcast line-up. They’re subjects close to home for Burgess, who married rugby league superstar Sam Burgess in 2015 in a lavish wedding when she was 26, only for it to end up in a highly publicised divorce following a sexting scandal and allegations of both substance abuse and intimate partner violence, of which he was ultimately cleared.
“If you can imagine a big ceramic pot being dropped and shattering into a million pieces, with no idea how to put it back together, then that was a little bit of what it was like,” says Burgess, who left the marriage in 2019, and subsequently Sydney. “The fact that it has all played out publicly, that makes me unique. But the experience of what I went through – the shame, the trauma that shook me to my core and took away all my confidence and my sense of self – that’s far too common, and I want to use this fantastic opportunity of hosting a podcast to validate other women and their stories.”
Burgess says she can’t imagine ever dating again. “What am I going to put on my Tinder profile? ‘Sleeps in same bed as daughter. Lives with parents. Enormous public baggage!’” she says, laughing. “I don’t know why, but people seem to want me to enter a new phase, but I’m content here for the moment.”
She’s also been asked numerous times why she hasn’t changed back to her maiden name, Hooke. “I feel as if I walked through fire. I’m a different person now. I can’t go back – that girl, Phoebe Hooke no longer exists.” In her place a stronger, more resilient person has emerged, says Burgess, one who is less inclined to take anything in life for granted, with a deeper compassion for others – and herself.
It’s something Burgess says she views as a dark gift. “I no longer care anymore about being so perfect all the time; I’m much more interested in being human.” Though, she is quick to add, it has taken hard work and determination to get there. “I’ve had to surround myself with lots of love and support, which I recognise is an enormous privilege. I’ve worked with psychologists and psychiatrists,” she says.
Her main motivation – her two children, who Burgess says are her world.
“My children have been through so much change in their short lives. I want to give them the safety and consistency and love they need by being the best mother I can be, and I can’t do that if I don’t first make sure I’m taking care of myself.”
Burgess has battled chronic back pain since a skiing accident when she was a teenager, as well as anxiety, which she considered debilitating, during the darkest points of her marriage. “I was shaking all the time; I developed a fear of driving. It’s as if my body knew, way before I could admit it to myself, that something was wrong and I was not okay.”
These days, she better understands herself and the value of self-care. That means not reading anything written about her online, and also, avoiding alcohol. “I haven’t had a drink in two years,” she tells Vogue. “Too many bad associations with my old life. I’ll get there one day.”
Instead, Burgess says, she attempts to harness her anxiety, rather than fight it. “I’ve tried to figure out ways in which I can use all of that emotional energy in other things, whether that’s exercise, meditation or gardening.” Being outside and getting her hands dirty, she explains, has been therapeutic. “I’ve really taken to gardening in the past few years. It’s very soothing and my grandma always used to say that just getting your hands into the soil can improve your mood. And she was actually right. It’s known to help depression and anxiety.”
“I love being out in the sun, getting my vitamin D and watching the roses grow. I’ll put on a podcast; I’ve got about 30 favourites!” she says, before listing her love of true-crime investigators, like Hedley Thomas. She’s listened to Serial, Dr. Death, and the William Tyrell story.
“But I also love anything to do with people overcoming adversity,” like the podcast called Something Was Wrong, which began almost as a hobby for Tiffany Reese, who started it in her garage in North Carolina.
“She talks to women who have gone through domestic abuse, coercive control and gaslighting by their partners.” Burgess says she has found it inspiring and hopes to replicate a lot of those themes in Under the Gloss. Another source of inspiration, she says, is her own mother, Sarah Hooke.
“My parents recently celebrated their 40th wedding anniversary and when my dad retired, and got up to give this incredible speech, the one person he thanked was my mum. She really created this legacy where nothing was too hard or too much, she drove me everywhere, to tennis, to swimming and even today she’s back up into a parenting role with my own kids.”
Her father, Mitchell Hooke, former CEO of Minerals Council of Australia, was just as dedicated to his children, Phoebe, her older sister Jemima, 37, and her younger sister, Harriet, 29.
“I remember I had an economics paper due that I was writing, and he stayed up with me until about two in the morning because I asked him for his help. He had a huge meeting with Chinese representatives in the mining industry the next morning, which he didn’t tell me at the time, but he prioritised my paper,” she says of the man her son calls “Mitchy”.
Burgess’s self-awareness extends to knowing what her detractors think of her. “Oh, there goes Phoebe Burgess again, swanning around in designer clothes,” she pauses. It’s difficult to reconcile the woman who scored a 98 ATR and cut her teeth as an intern for Channel 7, covering the Parliamentary Press Gallery, with the tabloid media’s projection of an airy poseur on Instagram. “Instagram can be so many things at once. It’s a community, it’s escapism, it’s connection and,” she adds, referencing the designer clothes she wears, “it is my work, and I love and value my job.”
She continues: “It’s how I make a living to care for the most important element in my world – my children. It’s how I manage to pay school fees, ballet lessons and preschool. I’m grateful for Instagram in many ways, but I am also keenly aware of its limitations.”
Though, she points out, it’s the women she’s been able to connect with on the social media platform that have made the biggest impact.
“I never underestimate my social-media community; I truly believe that being inauthentic is how you alienate people,” she says.
“I am extremely proud of who Phoebe is today, how she has held herself through personal pain and public scrutiny,” says her best friend, Phoebe White. “She has raised her children away from what could have been a very difficult upbringing. I believe that your children are a direct reflection of you as a person and as a parent, and these kids – they are kind, funny, smart, generous and loving. And as Phoebe continues to rebuild her life, it’s obvious that’s who she is, too.”
But Burgess, steady and warm, believes the goal is bigger than just her. “My hope with this podcast, and with most things I do publicly, is for women to know you can come out the other side of trauma, and be okay.”
Under The Gloss will premiere across podcast platforms this month.
This story appears in the May 2022 edition of Vogue Australia, on newsstands now.