Q and A: What is our energy future?

The ABC’s Q&A program dealt with the federal government’s energy road map and what Australia’s energy priorities are as it shifts from coal to gas.

Labor's agriculture and resources spokesman Joel Fitzgibbon. Picture: ABC

The ABC’s Q&A program on Monday night prompted a hefty discussion from its panellists as they dealt with the federal government’s energy road map and what Australia’s energy priorities are as it shifts from coal to gas.

Sustainability entrepreneur Sophia Hamblin Wang said the “pause” in daily operations due to the COVID-19 lockdown had created an opportunity for businesses to enshrine sustainability and climate change in their recovery efforts, adding she believed Australia can meet its emission targets if it decides to do so.

However, Ms Hamblin Wang said the cost of getting out of the Paris climate agreement – a call made by fellow panellist Queensland Nationals senator Matt Canavan – was “incredibly short-sighted”.

“I really feel strongly that we need to be meeting our targets in order to ensure that we don’t have future catastrophic climate change and to make sure that we don’t have warming above 1.5 degrees,” she said.

“This is an opportunity to build industries and to create jobs around sustainability and merge so many different opportunities that we have in this space.”

Zoe Whitton, an environment, social and governance analyst at investment bank Citi and a member of the Investor Group on Climate Change, said Senator Canavan’s view on the Paris agreement was like saying “we don’t want to be in the conversation” on climate change.

Senator Canavan responded by asking: “Does anyone think a country [China] we can’t trust will live up to a trade agreement signed up to a few years ago and will live up to its commitment targets? That is an absolute fairy tale.”

“This agreement is not working. It is not working for us. It is not working for the world,” Senator Canavan said.

“But unfortunately, it is causing an obsession among Australian policymakers to distort decision-making down a completely fruitless path.”

Independent MP for Warringah Zali Stegall jumped into the discussion, saying Australians want to see a positive future for manufacturing and industry, which depends on affordable energy and improving the manufacturing industry.

“At the moment we have some of the most expensive manufacturing and the least efficient from an output production point of view because it’s so outdated,” Ms Steggall said.

“If the government is serious about a manufacturing and industry-led stimulus, then it should be looking at really upgrading and making sure our manufacturing is at cutting edge. There will not be a place for dirty manufacturing.”

Opposition agriculture and resources spokesman Joel Fitzgibbon said the country needs to have a policy in place if it is to expect investment to come forward in the renewables sector. He added there has been a decline in investment because Australia has been without a substantial energy policy for the past seven years.

“Therefore, we’ve had seven years of investor uncertainty.”

Mr Fitzgibbon said investors are free to inject more cash into the renewables sector but argued it was not occurring “because no one knows what the energy system’s going to look like in 10 years”.

Next, host Hamish Macdonald put a question to Ms Hamblin Wang, asking her opinion on whether there is a justification for building new coal-fired power stations in Australia.

Ms Hamblin Wang said she does not believe so, given the global trend towards moving away from coal as an energy source.

“I can’t see it being very relevant in 2050, which is what I guess we’re here to talk about,” she said.

“And so, I don’t see much value in that. But I do care about a just transition for existing coal mining jobs – not new coal power stations.”

However, Senator Canavan argued new coal-fired power stations should be built in Australia as “it’s the cheapest form of power we have available”.

“There continues to be enormous numbers of new coal-fired power stations built in our region using our coal,” Senator Canavan said.

“Coal remains our cheapest form of power to provide reliable power.”

Macdonald challenged Senator Canavan on his position on the topic, asking him to clarify whether or not he is pushing his own interests when it comes to his connections with the coal industry.

“It’s an idea that I went to the election on and I’ll continue to fight for,” Senator Canavan said.

“I have been elected on that platform – to develop our country and keep our jobs here – and I’m going to commit and try and stick to the platform, obviously, that I was elected on.”

Ms Steggall called the idea that Australia’s energy future was in new coal stations a “fairy tale”, pointing out that the 242,000 jobs in coal mining make up 1.9 per cent of employment nationally.

“It is a part of our employment picture, but not our overwhelming employment picture,” she said.

“We’ve had a report for 2019 – renewables has equalled coal in power generation – so the idea that the future is in new coal is a fairy tale.”

Later, Ms Steggall came under fire after being caught “picking and choosing” when it comes to listening to the advice of experts on the topic.

The accusation came following her claim that there was a disconnect between the conversation and the language used by the government in terms of whether there is going to be a gas-fired recovery.

“It’s inconsistent with what a lot of the experts are saying and advising on the government,” she said.

“But the government’s taken a very narrow-minded view. It has handpicked its advisers that it wants to listen to.”

Macdonald called her up, saying: “To be fair, though, you started this program saying that we should be listening to experts like Chief Scientist Alan Finkel.”

“He was on this very program this time last week saying that he felt it was important for Australians to understand that gas was going to be the transition fuel and that it wouldn’t be needed for up to 30 years,” the host said.

Ms Steggall said she disagreed, instead arguing that Australia needs to be technology-agnostic but also in a position to allow the market to decide where the private sector wants the investment and what energy source will receive the biggest amount of backing.

“The Prime Minister was saying on the release of the road map it really wants a private sector to come to the party,” she said.

“We know super funds are the biggest source of funding to be put into investment. They are committed to a low-emissions future, so it is inconsistent to then be focused on a gas-led recovery.”