Dutton’s podcast debut was a ratings flop

Peter Dutton’s interview with Australian diver Sam Fricker bombed on YouTube, receiving only 4600 views despite the Olympian’s 5.8 million subscribers, showing the pitfalls for politicians trying to use alternative media to reach voters.

Fricker released the hour-long interview in December that covered soft topics including Dutton’s childhood, family life and career before entering politics, as part of the opposition leader’s drive to reshape his image as a political hardman as Australia heads into federal election season.

Opposition Leader Peter Dutton and influencer, podcaster and diver Sam Fricker.

But the interview reached just 0.08 per cent of Fricker’s subscriber base on YouTube, a platform that was key to Donald Trump’s success in reaching disengaged voters, whereas breakfast television programs such as Seven’s Sunrise or Nine’s Today reach average audiences of between 300,000 and 400,000 people.

Social media and marketing consultants said the decision to conduct a long interview with an online personality such as Fricker risked reaching a limited audience.

“Typically if someone has a million subscribers, the engagement rate would be at minimum 25 per cent, so on average you would expect an average of 100,000 views per video as a minimum,” social media manager and founder of Wize agency Jack Campbell said. “If I was a politician, I would be doing my due diligence to ensure that whoever I am engaging with has legitimate followers because it could hurt them more if the interviewer has little engagement.”

Both parties are increasing their social media presence to try to win over voters who do not consume mainstream media reporting, ahead of an election that polls project will be tight.

Dutton showcased his softer persona in January with an Instagram video giving a message of unity and getting Australia back on track.

On Sunday, he and his wife Kirilly Dutton gave an interview to 60 Minutes, with his family rejecting the public perception of the Coalition leader as lacking empathy.

Earlier in February, the opposition leader revealed to former Liberal staffer Peta Credlin on Sky News that he had his first daughter with his then-fiancee, but the relationship ended while she was pregnant. He has largely avoided tougher interview settings, although he has appeared on the ABC’s 7.30, and until this year’s sitting weeks had done only a handful of press conferences in Canberra.

Marketing strategist Toby Ralph, who has worked 40 elections around the world, including former prime minister John Howard’s campaigns, said political campaigns have to navigate the risks of spending time on social media’s many niche audiences.

“[When an] interview with a would-be prime minister only draws a few hundred eyeballs, something’s awry,” he said.

Olympian Sam Fricker dives into Sydney harbour alongside diver Rhiannan Iffland at a competition in November last year.Credit: Janie Barrett

There is no suggestion Fricker has manipulated his subscriber count, only that his videos have not drawn the engagement politicians are used to through mainstream media.

Fricker’s 5.87 million YouTube subscriber count is higher than Sky News’ 5.32 million, Nine News’ 1.56 million or even prominent American YouTubers such as comedian Theo Von (3.68 million) or astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson’s show, which has 4.31 million. Nine is the owner of this masthead.

In a brief statement, Dutton backed Fricker. “[Environment minister] Tanya Plibersek and I don’t agree on much, but we’ve both been on his podcast and I’m sure, like me, she believes Sam is a great and inspirational young Australian,” Dutton said.

Plibersek’s interview with Fricker received about 800 views. Former prime minister Scott Morrison’s interview generated about 1000.

The YouTuber’s highest rating video has 87,000 views, while his highest-rating short – similar to a TikTok video or Instagram reel, which is a quick video – has 500 million views.

But those views do not represent the total impact of a podcast interview, which listeners can find via clips or replayed in its entirety on other platforms including Spotify and Instagram. Unlike YouTube, some of those services do not disclose listener figures, making it hard to gauge the reach of a podcast’s audience.

Plibersek declined to comment. Fricker did not respond to requests for comment.

Former Labor Party strategist Megan Lane said Dutton’s tactic would probably be to lay the groundwork for what narrative he wants to send to voters, and argued the low number of views makes it low-risk.

“Layering has always been a key to successful political communications; you have to say it over and over and over again in lots of different places in the hope that someone sees it once, with the dream that someone sees it three times and it sticks,” she said.

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