Tech insider Kara Swisher on the problem of Silicon Valley’s ‘adult toddlers’

Each week, Benjamin Law asks public figures to discuss the subjects we’re told to keep private by getting them to roll a die. The numbers they land on are the topics they’re given. This week, he talks to Kara Swisher. The US writer and podcast host, 61, is widely considered the most influential journalist in tech. Her interviewees have included Steve Jobs, Elon Musk and Bill Gates, and her latest book is Burn Book: A Tech Love Story.

Kara Swisher: “This is the politics of selfishness – when the wealthiest people on earth pretend they’re victims.”Credit: Getty Images

SEX

What were you told about sex growing up? Well, I knew I was gay from early on. Back then, you felt very alone. When you’re black or Jewish, your parents understand racism or anti-Semitism. When you’re gay, you’re sort of left by yourself. There wasn’t a lot of material; there wasn’t the internet. But for some reason, my mum gave me a book called Love & Sex in Plain Language [by Eric W. Johnson]. And there was a section about being gay.

What did it say? Actually, it wasn’t negative. I just devoured it. But there was another book – Our Bodies, Ourselves [by Boston Women’s Health Book Collective]. The new editions are good, but the old one had a section on how being a lesbian was about being sad, furtive and alcoholic. It wasn’t a good message for a young, gay person. Then AIDS really changed me: I was coming of age at the time the Reagan administration was essentially killing people by not dealing with the crisis. And I remember thinking, “I’ve f---ing had enough.” I came out and I’ve been out ever since.

Do you envy younger generations of queer people? Oh, you’re so f---ing lucky! Obviously, there are [anti-queer] bills being [introduced] all around the US right now – most of which haven’t passed, but that doesn’t mean they’re going away. I never think they’re going away, these haters. Every time someone is like, “I’m not sure I like gay men having sex,” I say, “Well, you should stop having it.” Same thing with abortion: don’t have one if you don’t believe in it!

Your latest book is about tech billionaires. Is it also a book about toxic masculinity? It is. Silicon Valley is such a male-based culture and [therefore] a fragile culture. Many [of these billionaires] have transformed into really selfish pricks. It’s not any more complicated than they’re just assholes. I don’t think they should be in charge of the world, especially when they’re unaccountable. They own levers of power; that’s problematic when they act like adult toddlers.

POLITICS

Politics is essentially about personal values. Where did you get yours? Oh, I had a pretty conservative family. Mostly Republican, but “not-involved” Republican. Most people in this country are like that, despite how it must seem in Australia. Most people are just trying to get through the day. Nobody likes the extremes, but the extremes are the loudest. Mostly, I would have called myself an independent, but I’m really more of a Democrat now. I often surprise people by being quite pro-military. My dad was in the military, didn’t have a lot of money, and it got him to medical school, so I see the positives in patriotism. I try to look for the better parts of the American experience, but don’t shy away from pretending the bad parts aren’t happening.

What made you identify more as a Democrat? Before he acted like an asshole around gay stuff, Reagan – and that idea that there’s a better version of America – was appealing. But Republicans in this country have lost their minds, for the most part, with this cult of personality around a conman, essentially. At the same time, you have to be able to hear them on certain topics and try to find common ground. I think that’s when we’re at our strongest.

To what extent is the world of tech billionaires now completely enmeshed with politics? These guys are really jumping into the deep end of politics now. They realise it doesn’t cost that much to have a lot of influence. I used to call them “Libertarian Lite”; now I just call them the party of selfish pricks. Elon Musk is the perfect example. Here’s a guy who took loans from the government in order to stay afloat; now he decries the government and takes space contracts to stay afloat. I’m like, “Give me a f---ing break. Pick a lane, dude.” This is the politics of selfishness – when the wealthiest people on earth pretend they’re victims.

Is it true that you’ve been interested in running for political office? I’ve considered running for mayor [of San Francisco]. I always think that you can’t just complain about things without doing something. So it was like, “Stop bellyaching, Kara, and do something about it instead.” But then COVID happened and I had two more kids. Now I have four so I just don’t have time to be mayor!

RELIGION

To what extent is Burn Book a document about you losing faith in aspects of the tech industry and certain people in it? It’s a love story gone wrong. As with many love stories, you think of all the possibilities, then you’re like, “Oh dear, how did I marry this person?” But it actually ends on a very hopeful note because there are all kinds of cool things tech can still do. I use the Star Wars-Star Trek metaphor: a Star Wars person sees a dystopian world and a Star Trek person a hopeful one. I remain a Star Trek person. Despite all evidence to the contrary, this could still be something amazing.

Is there still anyone in tech you think worthy of being idolised? Oh, Steve Jobs. People don’t realise how important he was. I know all the negatives about him – I’m aware – but I think that he really did a lot, so I appreciate him.

Complete this sentence for me, Kara. “Other people go to church; I …” … go to hardware stores. I’m such a lesbian.

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