Greg Combet: Julia Gillard sounded me out on the leadership. I made the right call

Greg Combet is a former leader of the ACTU and cabinet minister in the Rudd and Gillard governments. He is now chair of Australia’s “great national asset”, the Future Fund.

Fitz: Greg, I want to get to your chairmanship of the Future Fund. But to start with, can you give us – if not, the “Greatest Hits of Greg Combet” – at least the touchstones of your earlier life, the things you learnt that have guided you ever since?

GC: That would be the values I learnt growing up at Rooty Hill, where I became acutely aware of the importance of fairness, the importance of people having opportunities to get ahead and social justice.

Fitz: Were you born on the wrong side of the tracks, gazing wanly at those born on the right side of the tracks?

Greg Combet: “I became intensely interested in politics from a really young age.”Credit: Dominic Lorrimer

GC: I wouldn’t say that. I mean in the 1960s in Rooty Hill, you didn’t see a lot of any tracks. But my father had chronic illnesses, and he died when I was 13. And yet because there were no significant health services in the western suburbs, we had to troop down Parramatta Road into Macquarie Street all the time, and that was our life for years. And I started to realise: why aren’t there hospitals that can deal with these things in the western suburbs of Sydney? And it wasn’t until the Neville Wran government was elected in NSW that that started to happen. I became intensely interested in politics from a really young age, through my dad’s experience and things like the Vietnam War. And that whole period of the ’60s and ’70s was a time of intense political change that I decided I wanted to be a part of. I was driven by a really strong set of values that were community focused, social justice focused and – thanks to the Whitlam government providing free tertiary education – I first got my degree in mining engineering, which led me into the labour movement and eventually leading the ACTU.

Fitz: Which in turn led to you becoming a politician in 2007 and very quickly thereafter a cabinet minister, leading the charge on the carbon pricing scheme, credited with genuinely reducing emissions. You did so well at the whole thing a lot of people were very surprised when you opted out of politics, straight after Julia Gillard lost the prime ministership, even though many had tagged you as a future PM. Why did you pull the pin?

With partner, former ABC newsreader Juanita Phillips.

GC: Because, in truth, at that time, I had some health problems and other members of my family also needed me and I had to be honest with myself. Those jobs are all-consuming and demand total commitment. It came to a head when Julia Gillard quietly sounded me out whether, if she stood down as PM, I would take on Kevin Rudd for the leadership when he was about to come back and challenge her in 2013. I knew it was coming, and I thought about it again overnight, but I decided I just didn’t have the strength and resilience at that time. And once that was clear to me, I knew it was better for me to leave politics entirely.

Fitz: You were given the direct opportunity for the prime ministership and declined? What the hell were you thinking?

GC: I’ve never doubted it was the right decision.

Fitz: Well, as a question from the None of Our Damn Business Department, did your [then] new-found love, long-time ABC newsreader Juanita Phillips, offer any advice as you made that decision?

GC: Naturally I talked to Juanita about it. I was also very mindful that my political profile was a source of nervousness for ABC management and potentially impactful on her career.

Fitz: You, nevertheless, went on to work very closely with another prime minister in Scott Morrison during the COVID crisis, when he appointed you to the National COVID-19 Co-ordination Commission, and you were credited with being the principal architect of JobKeeper. Park your humility for a moment, and tell us: were you?

Combet with former prime minister Julia Gillard in 2014 at the launch of his book, The Fights of My Life.Credit: Janie Barrett

GC: I certainly had a role in it. When COVID hit, there were basically just two options. One is you could allow millions of people to be terminated from their employment and line up for miles and miles outside Centrelink. Or you could do what we did and keep people in a job. When Scott Morrison called me and asked if I could help, I urged against the first option and argued that for people’s wellbeing, their safety, their confidence in the future, you must keep them employed, and that the nation’s money would be best spent as a wage support through their employer to keep them effectively employed with the same businesses. We did it, it worked, and it was a privilege to be able to contribute to the country at that time. It was something I was very proud of.

Fitz: Was it strange for you, to be dealing very closely with prime minister Scott Morrison, the very same man you used to shout across the chamber at?

GC: Well, I never shouted, of course, Peter. As one who knows me very well, you’d know that of me. I always tried to be reasoned and sensible, I believe … and after all, the Liberals had known me for many years as a trade union leader, and they got to know me better when I was in the House of Representatives. Scott Morrison and I started in parliament on the same day and he knew, as prime minister in that crisis, that he needed to draw on as wide a range of skills and knowledge of the economy as possible. And so that would be the reason that he turned to me for help.

Combet in 2004, just before he took the helm of the ACTU.Credit: Jessica Hromas

Fitz: The nation turns its lonely eyes to you … Which brings us to the Future Fund. For those readers joining us late, how do you best describe the Future Fund?

GC: Well, the Future Fund is Australia’s sovereign wealth fund, and it has the objective of benefiting future generations of Australians.

Fitz: There are too many syllables in that explanation. Can you put it in more simple terms?

GC: It’s the national savings fund, where the nation puts aside money to invest for the benefit of Australian citizens. At the moment we manage about $300 billion of investments. It’s a great national asset.

Fitz: Right. And what qualifies you to be running it?

GC: Well, it’s hard to sell myself, but most recently I was chair of a $200 billion global funds management business, and I’ve had decades of experience with superannuation. In terms of qualifications I’ve got degrees in mining engineering, in economics and a diploma in labour law. I’ve been awarded three honorary doctorates. I’ve worked across numerous sectors of the economy. I’ve worked as a company director, a superannuation trustee. I’ve been a cabinet minister, represented Australia internationally, and worked on major economic reforms. And I’m very committed to public service, with a long record of delivering improvements for people in fields as diverse as asbestos compensation, employee entitlements and minimum wages.

Fitz: Sure. But all around you among the business boffins, I see former students of Kings, Shore, Geelong Grammar, Queenwood, Ascham, Xavier College and the Hale School. You’re the only one I see from Rooty Hill High. It suggests you must be bringing something special to the table, that they don’t have, to sit at the head of that table.

GC: Maybe it’s my sense of humour!

Fitz: Is it fair to say that, occupying that role, you have to be ruthlessly neutral in your public pronouncements on politics or not?

GC: Oh, I’m very conscious of my responsibilities, so I conduct myself accordingly and I no longer get involved in the hurly-burly of politics, of course, but I wouldn’t hesitate to comment if I felt it necessary to protect the Future Fund.

Fitz: OK, let’s test you out. How do you think Peter Dutton is going?

GC: [Lightly.] I’ll sidestep that thank you, Peter, but thank you for the opportunity to make a comment.

Fitz: If Peter Dutton wins the election, would you expect your job to be under threat?

GC: Well, that’s a matter for Mr Dutton, of course. However, I’ve been appointed for five years, and I’d certainly like to think that I’d have the support of both sides of politics. I am committed to working with whoever is in government.

Combet (right) at union leader Tas Bull’s funeral service in 2003. (From left) former minister for trade and tourism Martin Ferguson, trade union leader John Coombs, and former prime minister Bob Hawke. Credit: Fairfax Photographic

Fitz: When you took over as chair of the Future Fund from Peter Costello, who was the actual architect of the whole shebang, there must have been some ceremony where he takes you into a quiet room, hands you the flame and says to you, “Greg, this is the holy torch of Australia’s financial future, be yours to hold it high, and I just want to wish you all the best. Don’t forget, lights out at 10 o’clock, hospital tucks when you make the bed in the morning, and you’ll find the teabags by the kettle, second canister from the left”?

GC: No, but I don’t criticise him for that. I congratulated him on his contribution – which has been a very significant one with respect to the Future Fund. And I’m sure if he felt that if he wanted to pass something on to me, he would have.

Fitz: What is your North Star as chair? Is it making the most money for Australia you can on our investments in ruthless manner, or are you using your “lefty-luvvie” background and belief in renewables, wage equity and social change to guide your recommendations when you’re looking where to invest?

GC: I’ve never been called a “lefty-luvvie” before! The responsibility as chair of the Future Fund is really clear. It’s set out in legislation. The objective is to deliver investment returns that are equivalent to the inflation rate plus four to five per cent over the long term without taking excessive risk. So that’s the North Star. And along the way, if we can make appropriate commercial investments in things like renewables, then that’s great, but the Future Fund must be commercial.

Fitz: Yes, but Treasurer Jim Chalmers has specifically changed the charter so that your riding instructions include investing for the future of the planet and things like social housing. I, frankly, can no longer listen to the ferals on what’s left of talkback, but their charges will be to say your job is just to make money for Australia, not pursue your “lefty-luvvie” quackery.

GC: [Laughing.] Well, let me make it clear, there’ll be no quackery! The Treasurer did indeed make changes to our investment mandate, and ask us to think about investing in the energy transition, in infrastructure and in housing in the Australian economy. The Future Fund already does all of those things, and we can continue to do so if we find appropriate risk-adjusted returns. That is, where there are proper, sensible, disciplined investment decisions that are taken. We’re obviously searching for those opportunities, but it’s got to be a sensible, commercial investment.

Fitz: But let’s just say – for argument’s sake – that the opportunity arises to put $10 billion of the nation’s hard-earned dollars on something that resembles Donald Trump Inc, a corporation that embodies the very values of Trump that you, personally, have spent a lifetime and career opposing. Would you encourage our investment in an outfit that say, specialises in the burning of coal and the selling of social housing for profit, even though such things make your stomach turn?

GC: I’m not sure that Trump Inc would be a particularly safe investment, and the risk would be something that would be taken into account. Greenhouse gas emissions would be one such risk. The Future Fund has, as I mentioned, very clear objectives, to try and achieve returns of CPI plus four to five per cent over the long term. It’s a large, diversified portfolio. We don’t take excessive risk, and obviously that informs the approach to investment decision-making.

Fitz: Would you countenance investment in nuclear energy for Australia?

GC: Nuclear power is actually prohibited by legislation in Australia. But even if it did come on the agenda any investor would not only want to run the numbers and carefully assess all the risks, they would want to be certain that it had bipartisan support. You can’t make multibillion-dollar, multi-decade commitments only to find that government policy changes all the time.

Fitz: How’s the Future Fund going since you took over?

GC: The last returns that we announced were a 12.2 per cent return for the 2024 calendar year. So that’s obviously a very good outcome. But having said that, as you would have noticed, there’s some choppy waters to be navigated, given the international political environment and the impact on investment markets, so we’re doing our best to navigate our way through them.

Fitz: Do you have a view on the net effect of Donald Trump on the world economy?

GC: So far the Trump administration has created uncertainty that is having a negative impact. I’ve just come back from the US where there is concern amongst financial leaders about the on-again, off-again tariff announcements, equity markets are volatile, there are concerns about the potential for US inflation to rise and their economy to slow. Add to that the uncertainty over security relationships with Europe. Investors may be slower to commit capital in this environment. We all need stability and to see clarity in the economic strategy.

Fitz: Thank you for your time.

Peter FitzSimons is a journalist and columnist. Connect via Twitter.

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