Listen to the meeting where senior Liberals ‘piled on’ Moira Deeming

A secret recording of a tense 70-minute meeting between Victorian Liberal leaders and now-ousted party room member Moira Deeming has been released by the Federal Court, as her defamation case against Opposition Leader John Pesutto heated up on Tuesday.

Moira Deeming, right, and her barrister Sue Chrysanthou arriving for the high-profile defamation case on Wednesday.Credit: Jason South

Why was the secret recording played?

The recording of the meeting on March 19, 2023 – the day after the Let Women Speak rally that was gatecrashed by neo-Nazis – was handed to Deeming’s lawyers a week ago.

On Monday, Deeming’s lawyer Sue Chrysanthou, SC, told the court the recording would show Pesutto had given false statements.

Deeming was expelled from the Liberal party room in May last year for her role in the rally. She remains a crossbench MP in the Victorian upper house and a broader member of the Liberal Party.

Opposition Leader John Pesutto with wife Betty arriving at court on Wednesday.Credit: Jason South

She is suing Pesutto, alleging the Liberal leader defamed her as a Nazi sympathiser, which Pesutto rejects.

That meeting ended with the leadership team telling Deeming they would seek to expel her. How the meeting unfolded is a key plank in Deeming’s case.

Who was there?

• John Pesutto, opposition leader
• David Southwick, deputy Liberal leader
• Georgie Crozier, leader of the Opposition in the Upper House
• Former MP Matt Bach, who was deputy leader of the upper house at the time
• Pesutto’s then-chief of staff Rodrigo Pintos-Lopez, a Harvard-educated lawyer
• Moira Deeming, who was a Liberal MP in the Upper House at the time

What happened?

With dinging Melbourne trams rattling along Spring Street in the background, the audio opened with Pesutto explaining the “implications” of Deeming’s attendance at the rally that was gatecrashed by neo-Nazis.

Deeming asked Pesutto why she was being blamed for “some random horrible people showing up”.

Deeming: “Very obviously, I’m not a Nazi. And I don’t support Nazis.”

Moira Deeming addresses the Let Women Speak rally in Melbourne in March last year.Credit: Youtube

Pesutto then moved the discussion to the rally organisers and sought an assurance that none of the people Deeming associated with – including those she celebrated with after the event – had links to the neo-Nazis.

Deeming replied that there were no links she could have reasonably known about.

Pintos-Lopez, who had only been in the job a few days, can then be heard going through some basic research he compiled on UK anti-trans rights activist Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull.

Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull outside Parliament House in Canberra last year.Credit: Alex Ellinghausen

There was also a discussion about a tweet from Melbourne woman Angela Jones – who Deeming celebrated with after the rally and who has attended court this week as an observer – that said: “Nazis and women want to get rid of pedo filth, why don’t you?”

Southwick told the meeting that, as a Jew, the language in the tweet was seriously offensive to Jewish people. “For you to go and have a little champagne with them,” Southwick said – a reference to footage of Deeming celebrating with rally organisers after the event.

The leadership team expressed their fears – just months out from the 2022 election – that Labor would weaponise Deeming’s attendance at the rally.

Pesutto: “They have been itching for something to clobber me with and this is it.”

He said it was the perfect weapon.

Deeming said she wanted to “fix it” and was “open to suggestions”.

Crozier could then be heard expressing her disappointment and anger at Deeming, arguing that the opposition had the Andrews government “on the ropes”, particularly on integrity matters.

Pesutto then raised the prospect of Deeming potentially becoming an independent MP.

Pesutto seemed particularly annoyed with her association with Katherine Deves, with whom she also celebrated with after the rally. A year earlier, Deves, then the federal Liberal candidate for Warringah, had been found to have compared her anti-trans activism to resistance against the Nazis.

At that point, Bach chimed in, saying he did not see another way forward.

Deeming is given a chance to respond and says she is shocked by the way the leadership team has interpreted the events.

Pesutto then says he believes resignation would be the best course of action, but that he’s willing to consider other options.

The four members of the leadership team – Pesutto, Crozier, Southwick and Bach – then leave the room.

When they re-enter, Deeming is told there would be a motion for the parliamentary party room to expel her.

Pesutto suggested she could resign before any vote if she wanted.

Why was the meeting recorded?

The recording was made by Southwick, who only revealed its existence to Pesutto nine months later.

The Age has asked Southwick why he recorded the meeting and why he kept it secret, but he has not responded.

Under Victorian law, parties can record audio as long as they themselves are a party to the conversation.

Why does the recording matter?

Deeming’s lawyer says it shows the meeting had been a “pile-on” and that the leadership had already decided to boot her from the party.

Moira Deeming arrives at the Federal Court on Monday.Credit: Jason South

Southwick, who is due to provide evidence later in the trial, will likely be asked why he made the recording and why he failed to tell his colleagues for so long.

Deeming claims she was blindsided by the meeting, saying she was at home on a Sunday when summoned to Spring Street. She initially said she couldn’t attend as she’d need to arrange a babysitter for her four children, but was told by Crozier that she didn’t have a choice.

What happens next?

The defamation trial continues for another two weeks.

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