‘Jaw-dropping’ testimony reveals Donald Trump’s alleged behaviour on day of Capitol riot
A White House aide has delivered startling testimony under oath in Congress, shedding new light on one of America’s darkest days.
An aide who worked in the White House when Donald Trump was president has delivered a startling account of his behaviour behind the scenes on the day of the Capitol riot, alleging he didn’t care that his supporters were armed and thought vice president Mike Pence “deserved” it when rioters called for him to be executed.
Cassidy Hutchinson, 25, worked as an aide to Mr Trump’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows. She testified under oath before Congress overnight.
She was speaking to the congressional committee tasked with investigating the events surrounding the riot on January 6, 2021, in which a mob of Mr Trump’s supporters stormed the Capitol in an attempt to stop the certification of his defeat to Joe Biden.
Mr Trump had spent the previous two months claiming, without evidence, that he had actually beaten Mr Biden and was the victim of widespread voter fraud.
Shortly before the riot, he spoke to thousands of his supporters in Washington D.C. and urged them to march on the building.
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Ms Hutchinson testified that she was in a tent behind the stage before Mr Trump’s speech, and overheard him telling staff to remove the security magnetometers (metal detectors) and allow armed supporters into the crowd.
“He was very concerned about the shot, meaning the photo we would get, because the rally space wasn’t full,” she said.
“He wanted it full, and he was angry that we weren’t letting people through the mags with weapons.”
“You know, I don’t f***ing care that they have weapons. They’re not here to hurt me,” Mr Trump allegedly said.
“Take the f***ing mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here. Let the people in. Take the f***ing mags away.”
Mr Trump’s critics in the American media felt this part of Ms Hutchinson’s testimony was particularly damning.
I've covered politics for almost 30 years. I've never heard anything as jaw-dropping as what we just heard from Cassidy Hutchinson.
— Stephen Hayes (@stephenfhayes) June 28, 2022
President Trump wanted a coup. He was - and remains - a threat to the Republic.
So Trump knew people had weapons on Jan. 6 and that they were going to march to the Capitol and that they were not there to hurt him.
— Philip Bump (@pbump) June 28, 2022
That's ... bad.
This is one of the most shocking pieces of testimony I have ever heard. https://t.co/zL4txpxNkM
— George Conway🌻 (@gtconway3d) June 28, 2022
This testimony is truly astonishing.
— Michael Barbaro (@mikiebarb) June 28, 2022
‘Irate’ Trump ‘grabbed the steering wheel’
After the speech, Mr Trump got into the presidential limousine and returned to the White House, having indicated to his supporters that he would join them on their march. It turns out he did not go back on his word by choice.
Ms Hutchinson recounted a conversation with Mr Trump’s deputy chief of staff, Anthony Ornato, who told her the president was “irate” when he entered the vehicle. He described a clash between Mr Trump and the head of his security detail, Robert Engel.
“Once the president had gotten into the vehicle with Bobby, he thought that they were going up to the Capitol. And when Bobby relayed to him, ‘We’re not. We don’t have the assets to do it. It’s not secure. We’re going back to the West Wing,’ the president had a very strong, very angry response to that,” Ms Hutchinson told the committee.
“He said something to the effect of, ‘I’m the f***ing president. Take me up to the Capitol now.’ To which Bobby responded, ‘Sir, we have to go back to the West Wing.’
“The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr Engel grabbed his arm and said, ‘Sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We are going back to the West Wing. We’re not going to the Capitol.’
“Mr Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel. And when Mr Ornato recounted this story to me, he motioned towards his clavicle (collarbone).”
To be clear, Ms Hutchinson did not witness these events herself. In her testimony, she was relaying the story she had been told by Mr Ornato.
Furthermore, NBC News reports that both Mr Engel and the driver of the limousine are prepared to testify that neither of them were assaulted, and that Mr Trump never lunged for the steering wheel.
In a statement, the Secret Service said it would respond to the allegations aired before the committee, on the record, in due course.
Unsettling response to the mob
As Mr Trump’s supporters swarmed the Capitol, some of them were heard chanting: “Hang Mike Pence.” A gallows was erected outside the building.
Mr Pence had served as Mr Trump’s vice president for the previous four years, but had defied the president’s demand that he unilaterally overturn the 2020 election result, earning him the mob’s fury.
(It was Mr Pence’s job to preside over the certification of the electoral college votes in a joint session of Congress on January 6. Mr Trump thought he had the power to reject the results of key states, and told his supporters as much repeatedly. Mr Pence had no such power.)
In her testimony, Ms Hutchinson recounted a conversation she witnessed between Mr Meadows and White House counsel Pat Cipollone.
“I remember Pat saying something to the effect of, ‘Mark, we need to do something more. They’re literally calling for the vice president to be f***ing hung,’” she said.
“And Mark responded (with) something to the effect of, ‘You heard him Pat. He thinks Mike deserves it. He doesn’t think they’re doing anything wrong.’ To which Pat said something like, ‘This is f***ing crazy. We need to be doing something more.’”
Earlier in the day, Mr Cipollone had urged Ms Hutchinson to “please make sure we don’t go to the Capitol”.
“We’re going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen,” Mr Cipollone told her.
“Pat was concerned it would look like we were obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral college count,” Ms Hutchinson recalled.
“He was also worried that it would look like we were inciting a riot or encouraging a riot to erupt on the Capitol.”
The committee has said it wants both Mr Cipollone and Mr Meadows to testify. The latter has defied a congressional subpoena.
Someone who has testified is William Barr, who served as Mr Trump’s attorney-general. The pair fell out when Mr Barr publicly contradicted the president’s voter fraud claims.
Speaking to The Associated Press in December of 2020, Mr Barr said the US Justice Department had found no evidence of “fraud on a scale that could have caused a different outcome in the election”.
Ms Hutchinson said Mr Trump was so furious about the interview that he shattered a plate against a wall in the White House.
“I first noticed there was ketchup dripping down the wall, and there was a shattered porcelain plate on the floor,” Ms Hutchinson recalled.
“The valet articulated that the president was extremely angry at the attorney-general’s AP interview and had thrown his lunch against the wall.”
‘Total phony’: Trump hits back
Writing on his social media platform, Truth Social, Mr Trump called Ms Hutchinson a “total phony” and disputed her testimony.
“Her body language is that of a bulls*** artist. Fantasy land,” he said.
“There is no cross-examination of the witness. This is a kangaroo court!”
Mr Trump said he hardly knew Ms Hutchinson but had “heard very negative things about her”. He specifically disputed her account of his behaviour in the limousine.
“Her fake story that I tried to grab the steering wheel of the White House limousine in order to steer it to the Capitol Building is sick and fraudulent,” said Mr Trump.
“Wouldn’t have even been possible to do such a ridiculous thing.
“Her story of me throwing food is also false. And why would she have to clean it up? I hardly knew who she was.”
Allegations of witness tampering
During today’s hearing, the committee also presented evidence suggestive of witness tampering. Ms Cheney read out testimony from two witnesses, whom she did not identify, recounting phone calls they received before their depositions.
“What they said to me is, as long as I continue to be a team player, they know that I’m on the team, I’m doing the right thing, I’m protecting who I need to protect, (and) I’ll continue to stay in good graces in Trump World,” the first witness said.
“And they have reminded me a couple of times that Trump does read transcripts, and just to keep that in mind as I proceeded through my depositions and interviews.”
“(A person) let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. He wants me to let you know that he’s thinking about you. He knows you’re loyal, and you’re going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition,” the second witness recalled.
“I think most Americans know that attempting to influence witnesses to testify untruthfully presents very serious concerns,” Ms Cheney said.
WATCH: In closing remarks, Rep. Cheney suggests Team Trump has engaged in witness tampering. https://t.co/eXPB9Pvazvpic.twitter.com/TkSV1G2j6D
— MSNBC (@MSNBC) June 28, 2022
‘This is the smoking gun’
Mick Mulvaney, who served as Mr Trump’s acting White House chief of staff for more than a year before Mr Meadows replaced him, backed Ms Cassidy.
“This is explosive stuff. If Cassidy is making this up, they will need to say that. If she isn’t they will have to corroborate. I know her. I don’t think she is lying,” he wrote on Twitter during her testimony.
Mr Mulvaney said the suggestion of witness tampering was actually more significant than anything Ms Hutchinson had said.
“The real bomb that got dropped was the implied charge of witness tampering. If there is hard evidence, that is a serious problem for the former president,” he argued.
“There is an old maxim: it’s never the crime, it’s always the cover-up. Things went very badly for Trump today. My guess is that it will get worse from here.”
A stunning 2 hours:
— Mick Mulvaney (@MickMulvaney) June 28, 2022
1)Trump knew the protesters had guns
2)He assaulted his own security team
3)There may be a line from ProudBoys to the WH
4)Top aides asked for pardons
5)The commission thinks they have evidence of witness tampering.
That is a very, very bad day for Trump.
Meanwhile, legal experts suggested the prospect of the former president being prosecuted had become slightly less far-fetched.
Solomon Wisenberg served as deputy independent counsel in the Starr investigation in the 1990s, which eventually led to the impeachment of Democratic president Bill Clinton.
“This is the smoking gun,” Mr Wisenberg told The New York Times.
“There isn’t any question that this establishes a prima facie case for his criminal culpability on seditious conspiracy charges.”
Seditious conspiracy is a crime in which multiple people “conspire to overthrow, put down or destroy by force the government of the United States”, or to “oppose by force” its authority, or to “prevent, hinder or delay the execution of any law of the United States”. It carries a maximum prison sentence of 20 years.
One of the committee’s members, Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney, has previously raised the crime during the public hearings, saying its work will uncover “plots to commit seditious conspiracy”. Some of the rioters are already facing seditious conspiracy charges.
However, Ms Cheney has not applied the term to Mr Trump.
Appearing on Fox News after Ms Hutchinson’s testimony, former US attorney Alex Little delivered a similar assessment to Mr Wisenberg’s.
“How much of this has criminal implications for the former president, if true?” asked anchor Neil Cavuto.
“A great deal of it does,” said Mr Little, pointing specifically to Mr Trump’s “knowledge of weapons in the crowd”.
“It suggests, when there’s later violence, that he had some awareness of that and was willing to be OK with that risk.
“And the discussions in the West Wing when he’s back in the White House, where she testified about Meadows’ conversation about the president really not caring about the fact that there were chants of ‘hang Mike Pence’. I mean that’s pretty damning stuff.
“You’re the president of the United States. You owe an oath to everyone, including those police officers who were at the Capitol, and including people on both sides who are inside that Capitol building. And if you are OK with there being a greater risk of harm, because the folks have guns and weapons and they’re marching towards the Capitol, that shows a betrayal of your oath.
“That goes directly in line with charges like seditious conspiracy. You can say, ‘I’m not worried about them hurting me.’ You need to be worried about them hurting the democratic process and the folks who are in the Capitol.”
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