Top cops to face questions at Sydney siege inquest

CATHERINE Burn deleted texts she sent on the night of the Sydney siege. Today she said deleting texts was “ordinary” behaviour.

THE highly anticipated evidence from three of the state’s most senior cops is underway as NSW Police Deputy Commissioner Catherine Burn takes the stand at the inquest into the deadly Lindt Café siege.

Ms Burn, the state’s head of counter-terrorism, today entered the witness box to give her evidence after Acting Deputy Commissioner Jeff Loy fronted the inquest earlier on Monday.

The two senior officers, along with Commissioner Andrew Scipione, have denied playing key operational roles during the December 2014 siege.

Ms Burn this afternoon told the inquest her role on the day was to provide the commissioners, the NSW Government and the media with updates on the siege.

Counsel assisting Jeremy Gormly: “You made a point that you had no operational role during the course of the siege?”

Ms Burn: “That’s correct.”

Ms Burn was questioned about why she called commander in charge Mark Jenkins during the police operation while claiming to be “hands off” from the bungled response.

The inquest has previously heard Ms Burn called Mr Jenkins about negotiations, which had reached stalemate, at 10.51pm on December 15, 2014.

“My sole purpose of ringing him was because of (a) call from a journalist ... regarding (the gunman’s) identity,” Ms Burn today told the inquest.

“I did not make any suggestion about the negotiation strategy.”

The long-running 18-month inquest was adjourned earlier this month after “a bundle of documents” that had not been properly vetted brought proceedings to a standstill.

Hostage Selina Win Pe seen in a screengrab from one of the videos uploaded to YouTube by hostages.

The bundle is understood to include emails, cabinet documents and hand-written notes by Ms Burn on the night of the siege.

A telecommunications provider was directed to track down deleted text messages Ms Burn sent during and soon after the deadly Martin Place stand-off but the inquest today heard the search had “not yet yielded fruit”.

Barrister for the NSW police force, Ian Freckelton QC, told the inquest “no further text messages have been able to be recovered thus far”.

Ms Burn today told the inquest she would “ordinarily ... delete text messages”.

“To my knowledge and recollection none of the texts I had were texts I thought I needed to keep, that I need to retain,” she said.

“From my recollection the SMS would have been of the nature of, ‘Could you give me a ring?’ I’m returning your call?’

“I also got a lot of texts from people, members of the public just noting what was happening and passing on words of support to the police.”

Mr Gormly SC asked if any of the texts referred to police emergency action plans to end the siege.

“I can’t recall, I don’t think so, I know there had been a message that was retrieved from acting commissioner Loy that refers to an (emergency action plan) but I don’t recall there could be others,” Ms Burn said.

Mr Loy told the inquest earlier today that Ms Burn sent him a text message less than 10 minutes after police stormed the café at 2:13am on December 16, 2014.

He said Ms Burn asked him to call her and report on the “EA”, or emergency action plan, which had just been executed.

Mr Loy was acting as the state emergency response controller during the siege, and told the coroner this morning that he did not have a role in strategic or tactical responses.

Ms Burn’s testimony will continue tomorrow. She will be followed in the witness box by Mr Scipione who reportedly called Mr Jenkins at 10.57pm on the night of the siege to discuss initiating a deliberate action plan to give police the power to move in on the stronghold.

NSW Coroner Michael Barnes said the intention of calling three of the state’s most senior police to the stand was to determine if they “intruded” into the operational area of the police response, or failed to do so when they should have. The families of slain hostages Tori Johnson and Katrina Dawson had also demanded the senior police give evidence.

Central to questions being levelled at the three senior police are conversations each had with Mr Jenkins, who was in charge during the final moments of the 17-hour siege that left café manager Tori Dawson and barrister Katrina Dawson, dead. Gunman Man Haron Monis was killed by police.

Tori Johnson.

Katrina Dawson.

Mr Loy said he had a conversation Mr Jenkins late at night during the siege about whether to launch a planned assault on the stronghold. He said Mr Jenkins’ risk assessment was that at least “two or three people” would probably die if police launched a planned assault.

“I remember him talking about two or three lives,’’ Mr Loy told the inquest. “I did support his view at the time.’’

‘’What he was saying was making sense to me at that time ... there was a logic to it.’’

The inquest also heard that Mr Loy and Mr Jenkins received an email from Mr Scipione just before midnight on the night of the siege in relation to a video gunman Man Monis had forced hostage Marcia Mikhael to make and post on YouTube.

Mr Scipione said in the email that the video should be taken down as soon as possible.

“This has just been sent to me … let’s move to pull it down ASAP. I’ll leave it with you,” Mr Scipione wrote.

The email included a link to the video, the inquest heard.

Counsel for Tori Johnson’s family, Gabrielle Bashir, SC asked Mr Loy if he recalled that the email sent by Mr Scipione was in relation to “a YouTube clip by Marcia Mikhael” where she declared “police were doing nothing”.

“No I don’t,” Mr Loy replied.

“I have heard that since that period.”

Bashir: “This was an email direct from the commissioner of police to yourself and assistant commissioner (Mark) Jenkins and another … and it was a direction to take the YouTube clip down wasn’t it?”

Loy: “I don’t see it as a direction. It was sent to POC commander Jenkins and myself. Attempts had been made by the POC to do that anyway.”

Ms Bashir said Mr Jenkins replied “to the commissioner” on email just seconds later, saying “onto it”.

Bashir: “He was already onto it wasn’t he?”

Loy: “Yes.”

Bashir: “Is this the only documented request from him you received in relation to the siege?”

Loy: “Yes it is.”

Bashir: “There was never any request, for example, from the commissioner of police to move to have a DA (deliberate action plan to storm the café at the time of police choosing) approved and in place?”

Loy: “No.”

Counsel assisting Jason Downing asked Mr Loy if he thought it was “unusual’’ that a commissioner would issue instructions to pull down the video without the same awareness of the siege the commanders had.

Mr Loy said it did not strike him as particularly unusual at the time and that Mr Jenkins was already taking steps to have the video taken down.

Acting Deputy Commissioner Jeff Loy faced the inquest today. Picture: Renee Nowytarger

Counsel for Katrina Dawson’s family, Philip Boulten SC suggested senior police should have considered the “consequences inside the stronghold” before “taking down the video”.

Police raided the cafe after gunman Man Monis executed hostage Tori Johnson at point blank range at 2.13am on December 16, 2014. Barrister and mother-of-three, Katrina Dawson, 38, was killed in the crossfire by fragments of police bullets.

One month after the siege, NSW Premier Mike Baird praised the commissioners.

“I worked alongside Deputy Commissioner Catherine Burn throughout the entire siege,” Mr Baird said.

“I have nothing but admiration, respect and gratitude for the incredible work she did. That goes for the other police officers involved, all the way up to Commissioner Andrew Scipione.”

Last month, police counsel Dr Ian Freckelton told the inquest neither Mr Loy, Ms Burn or Mr Scipione had anything to do with management of the siege.

“They did not give any order, direction or provide any guidance or advice in respect of the conduct of the siege on the day,” Dr Freckelton said.

“They will say that in their statements.

“We cannot identify any forensic utility to you in hearing from them.”

But according to the top cops, none of their work on the night was “operational”.

The inquest earlier heard the families of siege victims Tori Johnson and Katrina Dawson had written letters asking Mr Scipione, Ms Burn and Mr Loy “all be called”.

The Johnson family’s anger was evident earlier this month when they took issue with the tabling of a police statement that offered them “deep sorrow and regret” — a statement their counsel Gabrielle Bashir SC said was put on the record against the “express wishes” of the family.

Police failed in their attempts to speak directly with Monis and didn’t storm the café sooner because they didn’t consider him to pose an “immediate threat” and feared he had a bomb in his backpack.

Expert negotiators have previously told the inquest NSW Police negotiators missed a number of opportunities to engage with Monis.

The inquest into the three deaths in the December 2014 siege — Monis and hostages Ms Dawson and Mr Johnson — has been running since early 2015 with the public hearings expected to conclude this week.

The inquest continues.