Scott Morrison and Bill Shorten go head-to-head in second debate

Bill Shorten has won the second debate by a narrow margin after accusing the PM of invading his personal space.

less than 2 min read

May 3, 2019 - 11:00AM

Scott Morrison and Bill Shorten go head-to-head in second heated debate

Welcome to news.com.au's live blog for the second leaders debate.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Labor leader Bill Shorten went head-to-head in front of an audience of undecided voters in Brisbane on Friday night.

Updates

Narrow win for Shorten

The audience of 109 undecided voters has given the debate to Bill Shorten by a narrow margin.

The Labor leader impressed 43 per cent of those in the room, just beating out the Prime Minister on 41 per cent. There were still 16 per cent undecided.

Debate turns to climate change

A voter named Melanie said it was great to see how passionate the leaders were about the Budget, but asked: "What's actually happening with climate change and renewables?"

The Prime Minister said the government had a 26 per cent emissions reduction target, compared to Labor's 45 per cent target.

"When we've set targets, we meet them," he said. "We do need to take action on climate change, it's not an option. We agree about that. What we don't agree about is the target."

Mr Morrison said Labor was not able to tell people what its target would mean for people's jobs.

"They cannot tell you what it will mean for your wage, and they cannot tell you what it means to the economy," he said.

Bill Shorten he was "very passionate" about taking real action on climate change.

He said since Tony Abbott had been elected prime minister, carbon pollution in Australia had gone up.

"This government's not getting our carbon pollution down, they're going up," he said.
"What we want to do is take real action. We would like to see 50 per cent of our energy by 2030 coming from renewables."

Mr Shorten owned Labor's more ambitious carbon emissions target, saying: "We owe it to our kids. We owe it to the future to take real action".

"The government say that'll cost you your job, no it won't," he said.
"We recognise if we invest more in renewables it'll create more jobs."

Mr Morrison argued there was $25 billion worth of renewable energy investments "happening right now".
Asked if he would admit emissions had gone up, Mr Morrison conceded "he's correctly quoted the figures" but argued the government had hit its target.
Mr Shorten cut in: "It's like that old surgeon's comment. The operation was a success – the patient died."

Why are you still funding headspace?

Mental health has been priority for the Coalition but one woman wanted to know why headspace centres were still being funded despite evidence that it's not working as well as it should.

The Prime Minister said he thought headspace had been a success, saying there had not been an incident of youth suicide in Grafton since a centre had opened there.

He said the Coalition had committed half a billion committed to youth mental health.

"I cannot think of a greater priority than stopping our young people who have given up hope on life from killing themselves

'You're a classic space invader'

For the first debate the leaders were perched rigidly side-by-side on stools, barely making eye contact, but tonight they appeared to get a little too close for comfort.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Labor leader Bill Shorten did not have seats for their second head-to-head and were instead left to roam around the space in front of the audience.

As the debate got more heated, Mr Morrison stalked the Opposition Leader before Mr Shorten finally hit back with: “You good there? You’re a classic space invader.”

The moment is already being compared to former Labor leader Mark Latham's infamous handshake with then-prime minister John Howard.

Was this a “Mark Latham handshake moment?” #peoplesforum #AusVotes2019 pic.twitter.com/NW7OVJF3He
— Kieran Gilbert (@Kieran_Gilbert) May 3, 2019

.@ScottMorrisonMP: For those earning over $40,000 to $200,000, the bill is $96bn in personal income tax cuts.

Watch now: https://t.co/sn4JgcR9qf #AusVotes #PeoplesForum pic.twitter.com/zFzTAvq6pr
— Sky News Australia (@SkyNewsAust) May 3, 2019

A question about the Budget surplus led to the heated exchange between the two leaders.

Mr Shorten was asked whether he planned to have a Budget surplus in the next three years or in 10 years?

The Labor leader said he planned to have a Budget surplus every year and his party's costings would be released on Thursday or Friday.

Scott Morrison said the Coalition would also have a surplus but it wouldn't achieve this by taxing retirees.

Host David Speers asked Mr Morrison how much the Coalition's tax cuts would benefit those earning more than $180,000.

As Mr Morrison waffled about his income tax cuts and how they would benefit everyone earning over $40,000, Mr Shorten found himself a pen and paper and starting scribbling in the background, saying "do you want me to help there?".
Mr Morrison hit back with: "No, because I wouldn't trust your maths in a heartbeat"

Eventually Mr Shorten proudly holds up a piece of paper with the figure "$77 billion" on it.

“I thought we could get to the answer quicker,” he remarks. “That’s nice money if you can get it,” he adds.

The $77 billion figure is from an Australia Institute analysis that finds those earning more than $180,000 will get at least that much in tax cuts over the next 10 years. Most of that benefit ($64 billion) will flow to those earning more than $200,000.

Protecting freedom of speech

The next questioner wanted to know about attitude to people who identified as Christian in public forums.

She didn't want to mention Israel Folau but says there is less opportunity for Christians to speak about what they think is the truth, "because society says this is wrong".

Bill Shorten wanted to know what she thought she couldn't say now.

"I can't say abortion is wrong because abortion is killing a baby," the questioner said.

She said high profile people in the community in particular, she was reluctant to mention Israel Folau but eventually did, were getting attacked for their viewpoints.

Mr Shorten said he didn't think women who wanted an abortion should have to walk through a ring of protestors.

"There is a lack of civility in in public debate," he said.

Scott Morrison said the government wanted to legislate to protect people against religious discrimination but hadn't been able to do this yet due to other priorities.

"We need to learn to disagree better," he said but added "I know many Christians around the country feel exactly the way you do".

'This is a lie, rubbish'

Bill Shorten was asked how much Labor's policies were going to cost and has hit back at the franking credits policy being called a tax.

"This is a lie, rubbish," Mr Shorten says.

The Prime Minister has been hitting Labor hard on the policy, saying it will be a $55 billion slug on retirees.

Mr Shorten rejected the idea that the franking credit policy was unsustainable. He said this was "at the centre of the government's scare policy," adding "It's not fair Scotty."

Mr Morrison said it wasn't fair to hit retirees: "They've worked hard all their life."

But Mr Shorten responded: "Everyone works hard. Everyone works hard."

He said many people had never heard of franking credits and if they hadn't then they shouldn't worry about it.
As host David Speers tried to hurry Mr Shorten up, Mr Morrison interjected: "I'm happy for him to talk for longer because he's got more taxes to explain."
Mr Shorten replied: "I've got more policies as well."

Mr Morrison dismissed suggestions that giving franking policies to people who don't pay tax was unsustainable, saying it was money that retirees relied on not to go on the pension.

"They were the rules and the Labor Party now wants to change the rules."

How do we address sexual assault?

The leaders have arrived at the debate and the first question was about what they are going to do about sexual assault offenders.

"Less than 1 per cent of rapists are jailed, this is wrong, what are going to do to address this issue?"

The Prime Minister answered first and he said he couldn't think he could think of a more disturbing prospect. "I have two daughters and I just imagine the horror," he said.

He said it was a matter of ensuring proper resources for the police as well as addressing the real cause of the problem, which is the disrespect of women.

Bill Shorten agreed but said Labor would also invest in refuges.

“We believe that domestic violence leave should be paid. We’re proposing 10 days.”

Leaders to meet for second debate tonight

Four days after their first leaders’ debate, Scott Morrison and Bill Shorten will start their second contest under pressure for different reasons. The two leaders will meet in Brisbane for the Sky News-Courier Mail people’s forum with 100 undecided voters.

The debate will be aired live at 6.30pm AEST on Sky News and there will also be a live stream available at the top of this story once the debate starts.

It comes at the end of a testing week for both camps with each party losing candidates over offensive social media posts.

Mr Shorten was declared the winner of the first debate in Perth on Monday night despite not being able to put a figure on the cost of his climate policies.

“If we leave the problem of climate change any longer it’s going to cost more to fix it,” Mr Shorten told reporters in Burnie.
“The reality is, the single greatest reason why energy prices have gone up in Australia is there’s just a lack of energy policy.”

Mr Morrison has had to deal with losing three candidates after they made anti-Muslim and anti-gay comments online.
Mr Morrison said this week he would give Mr Shorten “enough rope” to kill off Labor’s chances with his own policies.
But the prime minister denied he was running a small target strategy in the campaign.
“We launched an entire budget going into this campaign with 700 individual measures that equate to almost $500 billion worth of expenditure across every element of government activity,” Mr Morrison said on Wednesday.