Transcript of Lisa Wilkinson’s full five-hour chat with Brittany Higgins, David Sharaz released by Federal Court
A 268-page transcript of Lisa Wilkinson’s five-hour discussion with Brittany Higgins and her partner David Sharaz has been released by the Federal Court.
Lisa Wilkinson claimed Julie Bishop had “shat all over the Liberal Party” in a women’s empowerment event and suggested she was charging $40,000 for a speech in a candid pre-interview with Brittany Higgins.
The Federal Court has now published a 268-page transcript of a five hour discussion between Ms Wilkinson, Ms Higgins, her boyfriend David Sharaz and Ten producer Angus Llewellyn.
It reveals the veteran broadcaster suggests Canberra has a sick culture that reminds her of the infamous billionaire paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.
“It’s like Jeffrey Epstein. Everyone’s got something on everyone else, so no-one talks,’’ Ms Wilkinson.
She also suggests the government is playing “mind games” with Ms Higgins.
“I’ll say it again, it’s a sick culture,’’ the broadcaster says.
Ms Wilkinson was cross examined over the tape on Thursday as the trial continues.
She was accused of “crossing the line” as a journalist and “coaching” Ms Higgins answers, a suggestion she firmly rejected.
Canberra bubble is “as ugly as sin”
“It’s about fear, it’s about intimidation, it’s sexist, it’s, everything is implied, everything’s in secret,’’ Ms Wilkinson says on the tape.
“Everything seems to operate in dark shadows, because the minute you shine a torch on any of it, it’s as ugly as sin.
“They really, the way they play mind games is exceptional. “
Ms Wilkinson urges Ms Higgins to “just be kind to yourself”
“But make no mistake, the culture that you’ve been working in has been all about suppressing all of the good angels,’’ Ms Wilkinson tells Ms Higgins.
“Everyone around you has been saying, no, no, no, we squash that down, that doesn’t exist, we just try and, well, not try, we just carry on. Because that’s what we do in this bubble.
Julie Bishop won’t “play ball”
As the subject turns to “friendly” public figures who might help propel the story, Ms Wilkinson raises concerns that Ms Bishop will not “play ball”.
“Every other time she was asked to speak for the sisterhood, when it didn’t work for her financially, she wouldn’t do it,’’ she said.
“In that period before Covid, she was making, like, forty grand a corporate speech to high level banks and all the big corporations.
“I mean, she shat all over the Liberal Party at a Woman’s Weekly Women of the Future Awards. I’ve seen her give the same speech about four times, and she always talks about the same stuff. So, if we worry that Julie will not play ball with us, then we just need to get those grabs.”
Linda Reynolds “cheap, uneducated”
The documents confirm Ms Wilkinson then goes on to describe former Defence Minister Linda Reynolds as “cheap and uneducated” over a Twitter fight and “unnecessarily nasty towards me.”
“And now, you want to do it again by suggesting that I criticise the Liberal Party three hundred and sixty-five days a year,’’ she wrote to Senator Reynolds in a ‘direct message’ she read aloud to the group.
“That’s just cheap and uneducated. I’ve been a very vocal supporter of Julie’s, please feel free to ask her about that significant support.”
David Sharaz’ divorce drama
At one juncture during the recording, Ms Higgins raises concerns the government will “come after” her if she goes public. She raises concerns that Mr Sharaz’s first marriage will become an issue.
“So, I’m sure that’ll be something they bring up,’’ she said.
“David is in the process of being divorced, but he is not yet divorced. I’m sure they’ll bring that up. Like, it’s just things like that that I’m sure they’ll bring up and feed to people and sort of discredit me as a person.
“I like you Brittany”
Towards the end of the interview, the veteran broadcaster praises Ms Higgins and warns her the government doesn’t “care about you.”
“Look, I really like you, Brittany, but ...,’’ she says.
“You don’t know me,’’ Ms Higgins replies.
“I don’t want you to be deluded that they care about you,’’ Ms Wilkinson said.
“No, they don’t care, they don’t care,’’ Ms Higgins replies.
“They only care about the election. They currently care about the election, and you could bring it undone for them.
“That’s what they care about. Because all of their other actions don’t indicate that you’re anything other than a possible problem.”
‘Paranoid’ David Sharaz
Ms Higgins’ partner David Sharaz also raises concerns about who might be able to see that Ms Higgins has been interviewed before the story goes to air.
“The question from the cheap seats, you film it on, obviously, not a news camera, so, they’re different cameras,’’ he says.
“The card is that ingested into a Channel 10 newsroom somewhere, where someone - goes, hey. I met this girl once, she’s a Cash staffer.
“That’s a good question. Yeah, our stuff is on a shared server, so we could do it differently,’’ Ten producer Angus Llewellyn replies.
“I’m just worried, I mean, I know I’m being paranoid. But I just think, Canberra is so small, all you need is the Channel 10 political reporter to see it, go, oh, that’s like, Cash’s staffer, I met her once,’’ he says.
Mr Sharaz then notes Ms Higgins is planning to quit anyway.
“And who cares if, by that point, they’re suspicious. What are they going to do, hack your phone again?,’’ he said.
“Transactional”
During a period when Ms Higgins is out of the room, Mr Sharaz asks the veteran broadcaster a question.
“Yeah. I guess, what’s your, obviously, we’re not stupid, we know that this sort of stuff’s transactional,’’ he said.
“What are you getting out of it, what do you want out of it?”
Ms Wilkinson replies she wants to be a “champion for women who are being suppressed.
Mr Sharaz replies that “I assumed that”.
“No, I’m always about exactly the same thing. The inequality that exists out there, whether it’s white privilege, whether it’s male domination, whether it’s criminal activity that is suppressed.
“I’m a girl from the western suburbs of Sydney, I’ll always be motivated by exactly the same thing. People who deserve to be heard, not being heard.”
Mr Sharaz says he is a “big believer it needs to be told.”
“When she told me, when she told me about it, I was just, I can’t believe you’ve been keeping this to yourself.”
As Ms Higgins returns to the room, Ms Wilkinson tells her about her background.
“David just asked me an important question that you probably, well, you should know the answer,’’ Ms Wilkinson says.
“David said, what’s in it for me, as a journalist. And my background is, I was a kid from Campbelltown, who knew no-one, went to public school, and just got into media and love what I do. So, I come from a place of, I know what it is to be nobody.
“And to see good people repressed, suppressed, and their stories not heard.”
CCTV footage of night
Ms Higgins suggests that Senate estimates may be able to obtain the CCTV footage of the night.
“If they can get footage, if they can get logs, if they can get anything supplementary, I would go back to the police and do it,’’ she said,
“Because until then, it’s just my word against his, and then, if it goes through to court proceedings, I’m not sure that the onus of proof, without a reasonable doubt, is on my side enough.
“I think, if I lose a court case, it will just discredit everything I’ve said in the media and it’ll make me look like a liar.
“So, I want something in Senate estimates to come out of this and then I need, just any, whether it’s footage, whether it’s the logs, anything that I can kind of use to back up my word more so than just my word.
“Then absolutely, a hundred per cent I’d go hard. But until then, I just don’t have -
“So, is your endgame here, apart from getting ownership of your story back and being in control of what’s out there, is it to press charges against Bruce?,’’ Ms Wilkinson said.
“Ultimately, one day, if I can get enough stuff, absolutely, that’d be great,’’ Ms Higgins replies.
“Because at the moment, you can’t do that, because you can’t get access to any CCTV?,” Ms Wilkinson asks.
“Exactly,’’ Ms Higgins says.
When discussing her chief of staff Daniel Try, Ms Higgins concedes she doesn’t know exactly what Linda Reynolds told him.
“I don’t know specifically what Linda Reynolds told him beyond that it was an assault,’’ she said.
“He knew that. I don’t know if he knew about the check-in times or that. I assume not. I assume he just found out there was an assault and I assume –”
“Who knows what Linda said to Daniel. Oh she slept with a staffer on my couch, keep an eye on that kind,’’ Mr Sharaz says.
“Classic Chinese whispers,’’ Ms Wilkinson replies.
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Ms Higgins describes the Liberal Party as a “weird, gross, family.”
“You were gaslit. You were – it’s an abusive relationship,’’ Mr Sharaz says.
“I know that now,’’ Ms Higgins replies.