‘No man has a vagina’: Women’s rally footage played at Moira Deeming defamation trial
Exiled MP Moira Deeming has told a court that it is completely uncontroversial to observe that women do not have penises and ‘no man has a vagina’.
Exiled MP Moira Deeming has told the Federal Court that it is completely uncontroversial to observe that women do not have penises and “no man has a vagina” – as protest leaders did at a Let Women Speak rally in Victoria she attended – on the second day of her cross-examination at a defamation trial in Melbourne.
The extraordinary legal skirmish moved this week to dissect a rally she attended on the steps of the Victorian Parliament, with videos played that included profanity, footage of so-called TERFS – (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists), women dressed as unicorns and one protest leader telling trans rights supporters in the crows to “f*** off!”.
Ms Deeming, a former Liberal MP who now sits as an independent, is suing Mr Pesutto for defamation over allegations he falsely portrayed her as a Nazi sympathiser after she spoke at a rally that was gatecrashed by neo-Nazis.
Rather than describing herself as a TERF, she suggested she was a “run-of-the-mill, middle-aged mum.”
As her cross-examination continued, she was asked about a rally she attended with activist Kellie-Jay Keen, also known as Posie Parker and Melbourne’s Angela Jones.
During the hearing, Mr Pesutto’s barrister Matt Collins KC played a video of protest leaders referring to the protesters who gatecrashed the event as “morons” and urged protesters to reclaim the word TERF – – (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists).
“It simply means that you don’t think any woman can have a penis,’’ Mrs Kellie-Jay Keen said amid cheers from the crowd.
She also went and waved at “the boys” – the trans people that had gathered beyond the police line to protest about the rally. She said it might make them annoyed.
“You understood, didn’t you, that she was being deliberately provocative and she wanted to go and make a spectacle of shouting “hello boys” at people who identify as women,’’ Dr Collins KC asked Mrs Deeming.
“She shouted about boys and about how women can’t have a penis. I put it to you, you know very well she was being deliberately provocative and trying to stir up the counter-protesters.”
The Federal Court heard that Mrs Keen then told the crowd, “Can I just remind you why we’re here? Because we say, no man has a vagina.”
When asked if these remarks were provocative and controversial, Mrs Deeming rejected the notion.
“It’s completely uncontroversial that at the Let Women Speak rally, those things were said. That’s literally what we all came to say,’’ she said.
Ms Keen and Ms Jones also sued Pesutto for defamation for comments he made regarding the rally, with Mr Pesutto issuing a public apology in March regarding any suggestion the women were associated with neo-Nazis that gatecrashed the rally.
“As far as my comments may have been misunderstood as conveying that I believed this to be the case, I apologise for any hurt, distress or harm that has occurred,’’ he said.
“I agree with them that genuine community concerns regarding women’s safety and access to single-sex spaces, services and sport warrant meaningful public discussion,” the statement said.
Exiled MP: Safe schools program promoted “anal sex”
On Tuesday, Ms Deeming outlined her original concerns about the Safe School program that rested on “the absolutely justifiable empathy and concern of society or the mistreatment of gay people throughout history.”
“But in practice, it does three things. It removes child safeguarding standards in schools,’’ she said.
“It promotes high-risk sexual activities whilst downplaying the consequences.
“So, for example, please excuse me if this is graphic. It promotes anal sex … without covering any of the risks that are permanent, long term, and they would have a right to know.
“It usurps parental rights. If the student had perhaps decided to live as another gender at school, I was to lie to parents about that without there having been an actual diagnosis by a professional, without the parents having their rights removed from them in a court of law, without any official paperwork.
“I was supposed to lie to parents about this. I think these programs are outrageous, and that has nothing to do with bigotry or hate or extremism,’’ she said.
Mr Pesutto’s barrister then asked Mrs Deeming if she agreed she had described the program as “sleazy, unnecessary drivel.”
“Parts of it,’’ she said. “Absolutely. “
“And you’ve also publicly described the authors of the Safe School Program as, quote, literal, pedophilia apologists, haven’t you?,’’ Dr Collins said.
“That’s correct,’’ she replied.
“You said that the authors of the safe school program were, quote, putting pedophilic garbage in our school curriculums. You said that?”
“Yep,’’ she replied.
“Not a Nazi’: Secret exiled MP tapes emerge
A secret recording played in the Federal Court has revealed an exasperated Victorian MP Moira Deeming declared, “I’m not a Nazi,” in a meeting with the Liberal leadership after attending the Let Women Speak rally that was gatecrashed by neo-Nazis on the steps of the Victorian parliament.
The furore erupted after Ms Deeming spoke at the Let Women Speak rally in Melbourne, which she maintains was organised to help raise awareness about the harmful impact of allowing biological males who say they’re women to self-identify into female-only spaces, services and sports.
Critics claimed the rallies were anti-trans. In the wake of the rally’s fallout, Ms Deeming, who some suggest could be a future Liberal leader, was exiled from the party.
Secret recording: ‘Oh my gosh, there are Nazis’
Ms Deeming alleges she was defamed in media releases, press conferences and interviews Mr Pesutto gave in the aftermath and a 15-page dossier Mr Pesutto’s office circulated to MPs and the media in seeking support for the expulsion of Ms Deeming after Nazi sympathisers gatecrashed the protest.
She was subsequently suspended and expelled from the Liberal Party two months later.
In a secret recording played to the court on Tuesday, Ms Deeming explained she had no association with some of the protesters that gatecrashed the event.
“Very obviously, I’m not a Nazi. And I don’t support Nazis. They arrived just in black as far as I could tell, they were to the Left … everyone thought they were the other people who had got through the lines,” Ms Deeming says on the March 2023 recording.
“You’re not going to find a single shred of evidence … obviously I’m not a mind reader, maybe there’s some secret Nazi somewhere.
“There’s no evidence against me. They just turned up. There’s footage to show that we didn’t even look at them. There’s no photos of us talking to them,” she said.
She reveals she was shocked that men in black who were Nazi sympathisers turned up at the rally, performing the Nazi salute while being escorted away by police.
“I was thinking, ‘oh my gosh, there are Nazis here, that’s terrible, but at least the police are taking them away’. That’s it. How was I supposed to know they were Nazis?
“I don’t know why I would be blamed for some random horrible people showing up.”
The bombshell recording shedding light on a crucial meeting deciding her future that was only handed to the MP’s legal team a week ago was played in the Federal Court on Tuesday during the opening address led by Sue Chrysanthou SC.
Why the Liberals expelled Moira Deeming from the Liberal Party
The meeting, which was secretly recorded without Ms Deeming’s knowledge, ended with the leadership team telling her they would seek to expel her.
During the meeting, Mr Pesutto repeatedly raised the “very concerning perception out there that we are associated with Nazis,” suggesting the media coverage was set to increase.
The meeting’s attendees included Mr Pesutto, Ms Deeming, deputy Liberal leader David Southwick, Liberal MLC Georgie Crozier, Matt Bach, and Mr Pesutto’s then-chief of staff Rodrigo Pintos-Lopez.
At one point in the recording played in the Federal Court, Mr Pesutto suggests that the best way forward might be for Moira Deeming to sit as an independent “to give you complete freedom”.
“You can’t hang out with these people, you just can’t – you can’t go to rallies,” Mr Pesutto said.
“You’re a senior figure of the Liberal Party, you represent all of us.”