Life on the ‘inside’ with Ivan Milat and other notorious criminals

EXCLUSIVE: John spent years in jail surrounded by our most famous serial killers and rapists. This is what he learnt.

LOCKED in a tiny yard with no escape, surrounded by serial killers, mass murderers, paedophiles and rapists — it’s the stuff nightmares are made of.

But for convicted bank robber John Killick, coming face-to-face and mixing with “the worst of the worst” criminals in Australia has been a normal part of his life for more than 50 years.

Killick, a free man for just one year, has lifted the lid on his encounters with some of his high profile fellow inmates including serial killer Ivan Milat, mass murderer Malcolm Baker, “psychopath” Billy Munday and notorious paedophile Dolly Dunn.

In this exclusive interview with news.com.au, he described how he feared Munday more than anyone else, especially when he beat him at chess. He talked footy with Milat, a Bulldogs fan, and recalled how Dolly Dunn loved to do everyone’s laundry.

Killick, now 73, has spent much of his adult life in maximum security prisons across New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia for armed robbery.

His homes away from home have included the high risk units and segregation cells of Long Bay, Silverwater, Goulburn, Grafton, Pentridge, Yatala, and Parramatta prisons, to name a few.

He found himself behind bars for the first time at 18 years old in 1961.

Killick’s final stint in jail came after his lover Lucy Dudko hijacked a helicopter and freed him from Silverwater Prison in 1999. The couple spent 45 days on the run until they were captured. Killick was sent to Goulburn jail where he spent the bulk of the following 15 years.

John Killick with Lucy Dudko who helped him escape from jail by hijacking a helicopter.

“Over the years I’ve been in prison with Neddy Smith (convicted of drug trafficking, theft, rape, armed robbery and murder) and the whole ‘who’s who of crime’,” Killick told news.com.au.

“I was with the worst of the worst in Goulburn Jail, that’s the punishment jail, I was there for a total of 10 years, where all of the notorious crims were before some were moved to Supermax in 2001.

“Sometimes you’d be in the yard together with the most notorious criminals in the country and you’d worry they’d get grumpy because a lot of them have tempers.”

Some initial meetings between inmates were pleasant, according to Killick.

“People are normally on their best behaviour when they first meet someone,” he said. “It’s the same with prisoners, even serial killers and murderers.

“A lot of killers in jail have killed their wives or something and don’t reoffend because they’re not interested in killing anyone else. Sometimes it’s the only crime they’ve committed and they are well behaved in prison after that, moral prisoners.”

Killick said he learned to “spot the psychopaths” and steer clear of them.

“I’ve met definitely a few psychopaths, no doubt, they go off at a drop of a hat and they are dangerous,” he said. “Billy Munday was a psychopath.

“There’s a whole smorgasbord of well known, high profile crims in maximum security. I met them all; Darcey Dugan and some pretty bad killers, especially in the 60s in Goulburn.

“I was paired with Ivan Milat in the exercise yard, I was the only one he was allowed to associate with at the time.

“I’ve had a lot of publicity (for my helicopter escape) but I don’t rank myself up there with these sort of people. Because all I was was a bank robber and I went long periods of time without committing a crime.”

Killick recollects his encounters with his notorious inmates, as told to news.com.au:

Ivan Milat escorted from hospital back to his cell in Goulburn Jail, after he severed his finger and put it in envelope to send to High Court.

Ivan Milat, wearing a sheriff's badge, poses in his lounge room with firearms.

IVAN MILAT, serial killer convicted over the murders of seven backpackers

“I was in the Multi Purpose Unit (MPU) formerly known as the High Security Unit (HSU) at Goulburn Jail when they opened Supermax in late 2001. I was there when they came and got Milat and another two blokes. I forget their names, one was a five-time killer.

“I think they only put three in when they first opened it. The third one might have been the young guy who killed the mayor. Prior to that they were in the MPU.

“I spent four years in segregation, for 23 hours a day. I was only allowed out in the yard for an hour, two or three times a week. I knew Ivan Milat. We were put together in the yard. I was the only person he was allowed to be with because I wasn’t under protection.

“You had to ask to be on protection unless you were a paedophile or young and vulnerable and I didn’t need it because I was generally well-respected, I think because I was older.

“They said to Milat ‘you can only go with the helicopter guy’. He didn’t say a lot but when he did he usually talked about sport. He was into rugby league and I think he supported the Bulldogs. Milat went to lengths to convince me he didn’t (commit the murders), producing documents and saying police planted all the evidence in his house.

“I told him that if he did it he was a monster. He looked me straight in the eye and agreed that if he’d done it that would make him a monster then said ‘but I didn’t do it’. He was plausible. A lot of the killers were plausible. But I didn’t believe Milat was innocent.

“I looked at all the court documents myself and there was no doubt in my mind he did it. They always say they didn’t do it. I'm scratching my head to find anyone, of those that came to me, who didn’t do it. Crims have got a habit of saying they didn’t do it. They only tell you the things in their favour. Then you’ll go through their transcripts and be like ‘well you didn’t tell me they found a balaclava and a gun in your bag’, and ‘you didn’t tell me your DNA was on the rope’.

“Ivan Milat was the same. He was only putting everything forward that was in his favour.

“I wrote him a letter to tell him not to contact me again. I said ‘I’ve checked all your papers’. But I never heard from him again. I don’t know if it was given to him or if he responded and it wasn’t given to me (by prison guards). They came and took him and two others (to Supermax) and that was the last I ever saw him and that’s been 15 years.”

Convicted backpacker murderer Ivan Milat, in an undated picture, was found guilty of at least seven deaths and began his life sentence on July 27, 1996.

MALCOLM BAKER, mass murderer, convicted of killing six people on the NSW Central Coast in 1992

“He was in Goulburn when I met him. He killed six people, he’s quite mad. He was one of the guys I associated with while walking in the yard.

“He got a bad bashing (in prison). The reason Baker would have got bashed is he tends to go off at the Aboriginal (inmates). He hates them. He’s quite explosive. He was all right with me. But he had a hot temper when I knew him.

“I heard (he now wears a tin hat in the prison yard so aliens can’t read his thoughts). This is what can happen, people can deteriorate if they’re put in segregation for long periods on their own and they’re isolated. There’s no doubt about it. It’s a safe bet they’ll deteriorate.

“Baker’s (crime) was totally different to Milat’s. You couldn’t compare the two. Milat’s crimes were opportunistic in some ways but he obviously planned what he was going to do. Whereas Baker just went off his bone. It all happened in one go. And I think that’s what should be taken in consideration. For Baker, it was an act of madness.”

Malcolm Baker killed six people in Terrigal on the NSW Central Coast in October 1992. The victims included his son David, his former girlfriend Kerry Gannon, her sister Lisa and father Thomas, his friend Ross Smith and Smith's girlfriend Leslie Reid.

WILLIAM ‘BILLY’ MUNDAY, convicted of violent rapes throughout Sydney and the 1981 prison murder of fellow inmate Steve Shipley

“Billy Munday was a mad crim and killer. He was in for murder. He used to stand over and rape boys in Goulburn prison. He used to work as a sweep. And he’d see who was coming, say ‘I like that one’ then he’d go to the screw and say ‘put this bloke in my cell’.

“I’ve written a detailed account of him in my book (Gambling for Love). (I feared him more than any other inmate) because he was a psychopath. I played him in chess one day because I was a champion and he said he was a good chess player. I beat him. I didn’t know how bad he was at that stage. He got up and shook hands and said ‘good on you John, too good’ and went away. Then everyone came and told me later that I was lucky to be alive. They said he’d just gone in his cell and smashed it to ratshit. Because he wanted the game.

“Then when I came back to Goulburn (in later years) he said he wanted to play me again and I said ‘no way’. He wasn’t much bigger than me. I was prepared to fight him but those guys have nothing to lose. And they’re the ones inmates fear the most.

“That’s why I think the sentence ‘never to be released’ is a danger to everybody. They’re a danger to themselves, screws, teachers. You don’t have to let them out, just give them the hope.

“In the old days they’d give you 40 years with 30 on the bottom. I remember one guy who killed his mother and he got 50 years or 40 with parole, and he used to walk around dancing.

“When he’d done about five years, he said ‘only 35 to go and when I walk out I’ll be 65 and I’ll walk straight across the post office and collect the pension — I never have to work again’. So he had a bit of hope.”

William Munday was convicted of violent rapes throughout Sydney and the 1981 prison murder of fellow inmate Steve Shipley.

William Munday escaped from Morisset Psychiatric Hospital in 1979 committing more offences before his recapture.

JOHN TRAVERS, MICHAEL MURDOCH AND MICHAEL, LESLIE AND GARY MURPHY, convicted of the brutal rape and murder of Anita Cobby in 1986

“They were in protection at Goulburn so I used to see them but I didn’t have anything to do with them. If they were ever put in the main prison, they’d probably be killed. But they’ve very well protected because the guards know they’d be targeted.

“I didn’t watch (the Channel Seven documentary on the Anita Cobby murder earlier this week) because it sickens me to watch that. I know the story and I don’t want to be reminded of it. It’s a terrible story. The girl is gone and it’s pretty tragic.

“As I said to (my ex-wife) this morning, there’s a whole new generation of younger people who probably don’t know the facts. But I already know.”

The five criminals convicted over the murder of Anita Cobby in 1986. From left: John Travers, Michael Murphy, Leslie Murphy, Gary Murphy and Michael Murdoch.

JAMES WILLIAM MILLER, serial killer, one of two convicted for the Truro murders where seven women were raped and murdered in South Australia in the 1970s

“I was in (Yatala Prison) Adelaide during the famous case of Miller and (Christopher Robin) Worrell. Worrell was killed in a car accident before being brought to justice.

“I met Miller (in prison) and he wasn’t very bright. He spent a lot of time in segregation and he never got out of jail, he died a few years ago. But Miller used to drive Worrell around and they’d pick up girls and drive them out and rape them and murder them. Now, Miller (told me) he was too frightened to say anything. He was gay and he was in love with Worrell.

“To me, that’s pretty horrific knowing you’re driving a psychopathic murderer to pick some girl up and murder that girl. He could have gone to the police.”

Serial killer James William Miller in 1984. He was one of two convicted for the Truro murders in South Australia.

ROBERT ‘DOLLY’ DUNN, Australia’s most infamous paedophile

“He used to run around doing the laundry. He used to do a real good job of mine. He’d say ‘I pressed all of them for you, John’, and I’d say ‘yeah thanks’ which was good because if he didn’t like you it might go missing.

“He was in protection. He was into young boys. I heard he used to boast about them. He would have been killed if he was let into the main yard. I didn’t have anything to do with him.”

Convicted paedophile Robert (Dolly) Dunn in Goulburn Jail, 2004. Picture: The Australian

ARTHUR ‘NEDDY’ SMITH, convicted murderer, rapist and underworld, heroin kingpin

“Neddy Smith, he’s pretty stuffed from what I’ve heard. I first met him in the early 60s, he was a big strapping lad, he’s now got Parkinson’s and apparently it’s pretty far gone. He’s in a wheelchair and on medication.

“My opinion is he’s not a danger to anyone at all and they should probably think about letting him go home and putting an electronic bracelet on or something.”

Criminal Arthur (Neddy) Smith guarded by correctional officers as they leave Supreme Court in Sydney, after he was acquitted of the murder of Sallie-Anne Huckstepp.

RONALD RYAN, convicted of the shooting death of a prison officer during a prison escape from Pentridge Prison, Coburg, Victoria in 1965. Last person hanged in Australia on February 3, 1967

“He shot and killed a prison officer during a jailbreak. I did time with him in the H Division at Pentridge Prison, Victoria. He was the last man executed in Australia. I was there when they hanged him.”

Ronald Ryan in a police car in 1966. He was the last person hanged in Australia in 1967 (for the murder of a prison guard). Picture: News Limited

GANGS

“I was associating with a guy in Goulburn (prison) who was head of the indigenous inmates and they were clashing with a white power group in there. This guy was one of the few guys I was allowed to associate with in segregation, so I used to walk up and down and we got along quite well. I don’t want to name him.

“There were five of them in the white power group and they decided they were going to get me in the showers and stab me because I was associating with the indigenous guys. I didn’t even know all the racist bullshit was going on.

“I’d been down in segregation for four years and out of the system for 10. They would have got me but some of the other guys found out about it — the Lebs found out about it in a different yard, a couple of the islanders and some of the heavy crims found out about it and they all liked me. And they pulled them aside and said ‘if you go after Killick we’ll be getting you’, and then they dropped off.”