‘Not true’: Fiery Sunrise debate as Voice support plummets nationwide

Labor MP Tanya Plibersek has clashed with Sunrise host Natalie Barr in a heated debate over plummeting support for the Voice.

Labor Minister Tanya Plibersek has clashed with Sunrise host Natalie Barr and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce in a heated debate over falling public support for the Indigenous Voice to Parliament.

It comes after fresh polling showed a drastic fall in support for the proposal amid a series of controversies over Aboriginal cultural heritage, land rights and treaty negotiations.

Asked whether she was concerned, Ms Plibersek said she was “absolutely determined that we’ve got to get out there and combat the scare campaign and explain to people this is about two really simple things”.

“It’s about changing our constitution to acknowledge that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have been here a long time, and it’s also about setting up a committee that would give advice to the parliament,” she told the program on Monday morning.

“At the moment we know we’ve got gaps in life expectancy, in health outcomes, employment, education. What the No campaign are saying is we should just keep doing what we’re doing, there should just be more of the same, and of course I don’t agree with that.”

But Mr Joyce said the Yes campaign was “failing so badly because of what it is, not because of the polling”. “It’s based on race, so it differentiates Australia on race, which is I think anathema in 2023,” he said.

Labor MP Tanya Plibersek and Sunrise host Natalie Barr. Picture: Seven

“That it is in the constitution … once it’s in the constitution you can’t get rid of it, it’s there forever. It’s not elected by the Australian people, it’s a selected body, this runs at odds with democracy. And of course ultimately it has the capacity to be influenced or held by one side of the political fence or other.”

Mr Joyce added that “they say it’s going to make certain issues, health and education better, but they haven’t described exactly how it’s going to do that”.

“Why can’t we do that now, why do we need it to go into the constitution? It’s overreach, and because it’s overreach, people say I want to do something but I can’t support it,” he said.

But Ms Plibersek said the No campaign was “winning because they’re using the same old scare campaign they’ve used every time there’s been a change”.

“During the National Apology when Peter Dutton walked out, he said Australia would be up for billions of dollars of compensation — never happened,” she said. “After the Mabo and Wik decisions, native title, billions of dollars compensation — never happened.”

But Barr pressed Ms Plibersek on the wording in the Uluru Statement which refers to a treaty and a “percentage of GDP” to be paid.

“Well Nat, we’re not determining any of that right now, we’re determining one simple question, do we change our constitution to recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and do we set up a committee that would give advice,” the MP replied.

Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce. Picture: Seven

Ms Plibersek again slammed the “scare campaign” and echoed Nationals defector Andrew Gee’s claim that the Coalition would be “reconciliation wreckers”.

“This is not true,” Mr Joyce said.

“The Prime Minister of Australia has said he will deliver the Uluru Statement from the Heart ‘in full’, and that includes a treaty. So you’ve got to either believe the Prime Minister or not.”

He added, “And if you want to clear up scare campaigns, then one of the things you should do is deliver the legislation for the Voice for examination by the Australian people prior to them walking into the constitutional church to marry it forever. You’re going to show it to us on the way out, we want to see it on the way in.”

Ms Plibersek hit back that the legislation “will be determined by the parliament, you’ll get a vote, Barnaby”.

“You dominate the parliament,” he replied. “It’s determined by the Labor Party and the Greens, not us. You’re the government.”

Barr agreed, adding, “And that’s what people are saying, they want to see it before they vote on it.”

“That’s not the consensus, Nat,” Ms Plibersek said.

“Well the figures are here, obviously the Newspoll could be wrong, but in a Labor state like Victoria the voting is now tied. So there’s something going wrong, isn’t there?”

“Obviously,” Mr Joyce said.

“Well we’re going to keep campaigning,” Ms Plibersek said.

Yes campaign director Dean Parkin at the Garma Festival. Picture: Pema Tamang Pakhrin

Yes campaign’s radical move

It comes after supporters of the Indigenous Voice to Parliament doorknocked nearly 10,000 homes across the country over the weekend to combat flagging support.

Yes23 said on Monday that the weekend’s doorknocking blitz was the biggest grassroots push to date, with volunteers fanning out across every state and territory covering more than 60 electorates.

Western Australia — which is expected to scrap its controversial new cultural heritage laws following widespread backlash and community outrage — and NSW saw the highest activity with more than 2000 homes visited in each.

The Yes campaign said more than 21,000 volunteers nationwide took part, with 400 events scheduled across the country this month.

“I am grateful to the Bathurst for Yes group who knocked on over 100 doors in Bathurst over the weekend, listening to the community about what they think about the Voice to Parliament and to share with them why the Voice to Parliament is an important step to help improve the lives of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people,” Bathurst for Yes volunteer Michael Mullen said in a statement.

“We found that overall, people are curious to learn more about the referendum and some people had not heard anything about it at all. It was fantastic to be one of the many volunteers who spread across the country over the weekend, speaking to everyday Australians about the important moment we have this year. Our group will continue speaking with locals and answering questions right up until referendum day and we welcome anyone in the area to join us.”

Fremantle Labor MP Josh Wilson said more than 300 locals had put their hand up for the Fremantle for Yes group.

“Many have joined a political campaign for the first time,” he said in a statement.

“That is an incredible grassroots response and shows how strongly people feel about this issue. We are into our fifth week of campaigning and we are seeing the number of positive conversations grow and grow.”

Anthony Albanese speaks during Garma Festival. Picture: Tamati Smith/Getty Images

Voice ‘almost unsalvageable’

A RedBridge poll published in Sunday’s News Corp newspapers showed support for the Voice had plummeted nationwide, with the No campaign now ahead 56-44.

That lead extended to 59 per cent when voters were exposed to the arguments contained in the official campaign material, with one in four people switching their vote to No after hearing the arguments from both sides.

No is leading by 56-44 in NSW, 55-45 in Victoria, 63-37 in Queensland, and 54-46 in Western Australia, South Australia and Tasmania.

The poll of more than 1000 voters found the Voice was mainly supported by those with degrees and high incomes, people aged 18 to 34, and those speaking a language other than English at home, while the overwhelming majority of everyone else was against it.

RedBridge director Tony Barry told News Corp the findings suggested the Yes campaign was “almost unsalvageable”.

“In our research we are finding that in the absence of any detail, including why the Voice is essential to delivering tangible benefits for Indigenous Australians, opponents are now assigning real or perceived risks to the proposal which is further undermining public support,” he said.

“Right now, it’s all risk for no widely understood benefit.”

But Yes campaign director Dean Parkin told Sky News he remains confident the referendum will be successful.

“Through our own research we know that between 35-40 per cent of Australian people haven’t made their mind up yet,” he told the broadcaster at the Garma Festival in Northeast Arnhem Land.

“There’s a lot of Australians that haven’t turned their mind to it yet, there’s issues like cost of living which are at the forefront of people’s minds. There’s a lot of people that are undecided.”

Yolngu yellow flag dancers perform in front of the PM. Picture: Zizi Averill

Public support for the Voice has been shaken by a string of controversies in recent months, including the chaotic rollout of Western Australia’s cultural heritage laws and council backlash to a secret Victorian government land deal.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has also spent recent weeks attempting to hose down discussion of a treaty — described in the 2017 Uluru Statement from the Heart as the next step after the Voice — after claims it could lead to a financial settlement and payment of “reparations”.

The PM told The Australian at the Garma Festival on Sunday that Australians had “nothing to fear” from the second part of the Uluru Statement, which calls for “Makarrata”.

“All that Makarrata represents is a Yolngu word for dialogue, basically, coming together, literally coming together after a struggle,” he said.

“And no one can say that there hasn’t been a struggle. The very word Makarrata is something that no one should have any fear over because by definition, it’s about consensus, and working together, and that is something that we need to do as a nation.”

Mr Albanese said the No campaign was desperate “to talk about anything but what the referendum is about”.

“What is before the Australian people is recognition, and a voice in order to get better outcomes,” he said. “And that is all there is.”

[e-mail]