Gun control on Insight, SBS: John Howard, Port Arthur survivor, gun advocate in heated debate

FORMER Prime Minister John Howard addressed one of the toughest moments of his tenure last night - and admitted his response didn’t go far enough.

FORMER Prime Minister John Howard stands firmly by his belief that guns still pose a significant threat to the Australian community.

On Insight, he acknowledged how the nation has not seen a mass shooting since his gun control legislation came into effect.

“Realistically you are not going to be able to ban all handguns,” he said. “If people seek to criticise the laws we brought in by reference to the number of handguns there are in the community, thats’ an argument for further restricting handguns. It’s not an argument for winding the prohibition on automatic and semi-automatic weapons.

“But the great argument in favour of what we did 20 years ago is that we haven’t had these mass shootings and there has been a very - it was a very significant fall in the youth suicide rate particularly in young men in rural areas of Australia.”

However, he also admitted that the laws as they stand now are not enough. Alpha Cheng, the son of policeman Curtis Cheng, who was shot to death in Parramatta by a 15-year-old extremist, expressed concern over whether our gun laws are adequate enough to target weapons that can be acquired by criminals.

Howard said: “No, the laws are not adequate. I would have thought that everybody would agree if 15-year-olds can get hold of weapons like that, there is something wrong with the laws.”

On that note, he said he would encourage “sensible strenghtening” of the existing laws now, namely through reducing access to firearms as much as possible.

“Once you give people access to weapons and those people happen to exhibit a mental illness, then, you know, you will have tragedy.”

I'm no fan of John Howard. But I tip my hat to him for his swift action on gun laws after Port Arthur. #insightsbs pic.twitter.com/MFgkLktIbw

— Shannon Deery (@s_deery) April 5, 2016

Does gun control work? Between 1979 and 1996 Australia suffered 13 mass shootings. We have not had one since the 1996 reforms #insightSBS

— David Shoebridge (@ShoebridgeMLC) April 5, 2016

There have been no more mass shootings in Australia since John Howard introduced tougher gun laws after Port Arthur. #InsightSBS

— Belinda Demy-Geroe (@bdemy) April 5, 2016

Howard recounted his horror over the Port Arthur massacre of 1996, and detailed how his government responded.

“I was horrified at the scale of what had happened,” he said. “Here were 35 innocent men, women and children - Australians - others who had been murdered and others very, very badly, seriously injured, and a whole community tarnished.

“There was an added bleakness because it happened at Port Arthur. Because it had a history as a penal colony. That was the personal shock. I thought to myself: I’ve got to do something about this. I felt that I should.”

At the time, tighter gun laws had already been on Howard’s radar. He said America’s gun culture was “something (he) loathed”, and that he didn’t want Australia to go down that path.

“Sometimes in a situation like that you don’t have any alternative but to bring in a blanket law that captures the in sent and responsible as well as the venal and you have to be willing to do that. There was a price. In the national interest, a price worth paying. I have always acknowledged how absolutely understanding and courageous my National Party colleagues were on this.”

But there was one moment for which the former Prime Minister did express regret. It was when Robert Brown, from the NSW Shooters and Fishers, openly criticised him over the infamous moment he stood in front of a huge crowd of sport shooters wearing a bullet proof vest, about two months after the massacre.

It was a moment that would create a long-lasting resentment among the group, and John Howard emphasised that he “made a mistake” in doing so.

He said there had been a threat to shoot him delivered to the local police station, and that his then Chief of Staff Graham Morrison said he better wear it. Howard refused, until Morrison said: “What am I going to tell Jeanette if some lunatic shoots you?”

“When I got on the platform I realised the mistake. I never wore it again. I never thought anybody was going to shoot me when I was PM. I knew I had a lot of people metaphorically wanted to shoot me and do all sorts of other things to terminate my life politically and otherwise but I never felt unsafe.”

EARLIER

IT WAS a comment guaranteed to spark one heck of a reaction.

And that’s exactly what gun advocate Robert Brown gets when Port Arthur survivor Carolyn Loughton lets rip onInsight.

The pro-gun Fishers and Shooters politician and Ms Loughton appear on tonight’s show on SBS, which asks: How much control do we have over guns in Australia?

The debate was never going to be one-sided and tonight’s episode will not only get heated and emotional but is sure to spark debate over gun control across Australia.

Mr Brown’s comment on how difficult it was to obtain a category C firearm causes outrage from Ms Loughton who lets him know exactly what she thinks of his comment.

Ms Loughton said she still suffers every day from what happened 20 years ago at Port Arthur. Picture: Insight.

Shocked by what she hears, Ms Loughton, whose 15-year-old daughter Sarah died at Port Arthur, lets loose on him during the heated TV blow-up.

“Good, it’s meant to be, it’s meant to be,” she tells him before continuing: “Have you ever met anyone who’s been shot?”

Mr Brown says he hasn’t and Ms Loughton then goes on to reveal her shocking catalogue of injuries and how she’s still paying the price 20 years later.

“I don’t have a life anymore,” she said.

Ms Loughton said the bullet, fired by killer Martin Bryant entered through her back, causing lifelong injuries.

Ms Loughton lost her daughter Sarah when Martin Bryant carried out his massacre in Port Arthur. Picture: Insight.

The wound was so severe that when it hit her scapula (shoulder blade) her bone literally exploded which meant some of her hip bone had to be reformed to make up her new shoulder.

She suffered severe infection, nerve damage and various other complications which meant she also had to have part of her leg bone removed.

“Now I have half a left leg and pins in my toes,” she continued before berating him about having to wait 28 days for a gun permit.

Mr Brown said while he had never met a shooting victim he was sympathetic and if he could turn back the clock and reverse what happened that day he would.

“If I’d copped as much as you have had to put up with, I’d be verbose too,” he tells her.

“But I didn’t do it to you. I won’t allow you to demonise me because of something that

happened to you.”

Ms Loughton said she was glad our gun control laws were so strict. Picture: Insight.

Ms Loughton also tells Insight how her pain is more than just her injuries, every day she suffers with losing a daughter.

She reveals to host Jenny Brockie how she desperately tried to save her by throwing herself on top of her and telling her to stay still before she herself was fired upon.

“I thought to myself, we’re going to die here. This is where I die now, this is it.”

Sarah was fatally wounded during the Port Arthur massacre.

RAGING DEBATE

Several other guests also appear on the show including former Australian Prime Minister John Howard who ensured sweeping changes were made to tighten gun laws in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre which claimed the lives of 35 innocent people.

The changes, which were regarded as groundbreaking saw gun-related deaths drop dramatically

from around 600 per year in the almost 20 years prior to Port Arthur, to around 230 in 2014.

While admitting the laws were tight, Mr Howard said he felt it was still the correct thing to do for Australia.

“Sometimes you don’t have any alternative but to bring in a blanket law that catches the innocent and the responsible as well as the venal, and you have to be willing to do that,” he said.

The show also hears from Alpha Cheng whose father Curtis was shot outside Parramatta police headquarters in October last year.

Alpha Cheng asks Mr Howard if Australia needs another gun amnesty and if our laws are enough to protect us. Picture: Insight.

Mr Cheng questions whether the gun control laws brought in 20 years ago are still doing enough and asks Mr Howard if we need another gun amnesty.

He also questions whether tighter gun controls would have prevented his father’s death.

“My dad often joked that he worked in the safest building in Sydney,” he said.

“So I guess there’s some real dark irony there, but then it shows that it was never something that we were concerned about and part of that is because of the policies the Howard government brought in.”

Mr Howard shares his views with Insight host Jenny Brockie. Picture: Insight.

He also asks Mr Howard if our gun laws are adequate in protecting us and if are we as safe as we think we are.

Mr Howard replied that the gun laws were “almost certainly” inadequate.

“I would have thought that everyone will agree, if 15-year-olds can get hold of weapons like that, there is something wrong with the laws,” he said.

He also tells Insight he is wholly against any watering down of the existing laws and if anything he would encourage sensible strengthening of the existing laws.

Former Prime Minister John Howard said he was against any loosening of Australia's current gun controls. Picture: Insight.

STILL SUFFERING

Port Arthur survivor, and former police officer Justin Noble is also still reliving the events of that day.

Mr Noble has delayed post traumatic stress disorder and knows first hand the damage guns can cause.

“I knew the gun but I didn’t know the potential of the individual … straight away it was kicking in and moving people offsite, evacuating people,” he said of the events of that day.

“I was running around yelling at people to get out of sight and hide in the bush.”

DEMONISED

However, not everyone is so supportive of the laws.

For farmer Graham Park, the laws demonised those who did the right thing as well.

“Instead of a consultative way, they took an approach where they effectively started to demonise

firearm owners, to attack them as if they were the problem,” he said.

“When you’re using something every day in your job or recreationally, and someone starts treating you like a potential murderer, you naturally take offence.”

The full Insight episode on gun laws in Australia airs tonight at 8.30pm on SBS.

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