‘A closeness that not even I anticipated’: Inside the family business of Mamamia

In their first interview together, Mamamia co-founder Mia Freedman and daughter-in-law Jessie Stephens open up on the dynamics of their ‘weird’ professional and personal relationship.

In their first ever interview together, the in-laws discuss their shared life and Strife.

Stellar: Mia, when Jessie and her twin sister Clare started working for you at Mamamia a decade ago, would you ever have thought Jessie would be your future daughter-in-law and the mother of your first grandchild?

Mia: It was a very hard and fast start because when she first started dating Luca [Mia’s son, and now Jessie’s husband and father of their daughter Luna, 21 months], I was thrilled, Luca was obviously thrilled, but Jessie was wary. I don’t think everybody thought that it was a good idea. I thought it was a great idea.

Jessie: There were people that flagged it might be unprofessional. I think it probably was unprofessional. Great call in the long run. There was a moment where I was pregnant with Luna and I was like, I didn’t see myself carrying around Mia’s DNA. This is a closeness that not even I anticipated.

Listen to Mia Freedman and Jessie Stephens on the latest episode of the Stellar podcast, Something To Talk About:

Mia Freedman and Jessie Stephens, of Mamamia. Picture: Steven Chee for Stellar

‘I think of her as my friend!’ Mia Freedman on her daughter-in-law, Jessie Stephens (right). Picture: Steven Chee for Stellar

Mia: It’s funny when you talk about us being mother-in-law and daughter-in law; that’s never how I think of Jessie. I think about her as my friend. I knew her before they knew each other, so she was my co-worker and becoming my friend when she started dating Luca. It always sounds weird, you know: my friend married my son. It’s a great headline.

Have you not done that headline yet?

Mia: We should have written that story. It’s so good. I’d click on that. A lot of people said to Jessie, and Luca, isn’t it a bit full on? It’s Mia and Luca and the family and work and your sister. Our co-host Holly [Wainwright, on their podcast Mamamia Out Loud] said, “Don’t you just wish you had something for yourself?”

Jessie: I said I didn’t even have a womb to myself. I’m an identical twin. I’ve never had boundaries. I never have understood that things are separate. I worked with my identical twin, lived with her at a level of enmeshment that’s probably borderline pathological. And [to Freedman] you’re kind of the same. I mean, Luca came and worked at Mamamia. You work with your husband. That lack of boundaries isn’t weird to either of us.

Mia: It’s weird to other people. But to us, we were just really lucky that Luca married someone who didn’t find that horrific, and was comfortable with that level of closeness.

Listen to Mia Freedman and Jessie Stephens on the latest episode of the Stellar podcast, Something To Talk About:

Mia, Strife, which was very loosely based on your 2017 memoir, Work Strife Balance, was Binge’s most successful original series premiere ever when it launched in 2023. The second season starts on May 8. You’re returning as executive producer; Jessie, you’re returning as a writer and a producer. What can we expect from this next season?

Mia: We really wanted to lean into the comedy in season two. This is the first time I’ve seen – on television – an exploration of the advent of podcasting. Because it’s set in that 2013-ish world where podcasting was only just finding its feet in Australia – it was about 10 years ago that we started Mamamia Out Loud – to go back and look at what the set-up looked like, what we thought we were doing, the idealism and the naivety of this new, exciting platform, that’s really foundational to this season.

Strife is loosely based in Mia Freedman’s book, Work Strife Balance. Picture: Max Mason-Hubers

Mia Freedman and Asher Keddie at the premiere of Strife’s first season in 2023. Picture: Getty Images

It’s so interesting to look back on now that podcasting has become so mainstream. People didn’t know what it was 10 years ago. It’s been a once-in-a-generation revolution in media.

Jessie: What I love about this season is that it has such a self-awareness and a self-deprecation that I think we don’t see a lot in feminist figures or feminist publications, because we can be a lightning rod. And justifiably so. To watch Evelyn [played by Asher Keddie and loosely based on Freedman] toe the line and play with that in terms of commercial benchmarks that they need to hit is just funny. Because it’s the reality.

Season two of Strife premieres on Binge on May 8. For more from Stellar and the podcast, Something To Talk About, click here.

Originally published as ‘A closeness that not even I anticipated’: Inside the family business of Mamamia