Collingwood Q&A: Graham Wright talks Jordan De Goey, Jack Ginnivan, Brodie Grundy and the future
No club was more active than Collingwood during the trade period. Find out what was happening behind the scenes for the big deals.
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Collingwood general manager of football Graham Wright has filled almost every job in the AIA Centre since returning to the club in early 2021.
In an extensive interview with his one-time Magpie premiership teammate MICK McGUANE and sports reporter GLENN McFARLANE he says the club is again well placed to tackle the 2023 season.
MICK McGUANE: Wrighty, you’ve been back at the club for just over two years now. Was it a bit like walking into a minefield in those early days?
GRAHAM WRIGHT: I started the day after the Do Better Report was leaked (in February 2021), I started on the Monday and Ed (McGuire) resigned (as president) not long after. It was completely different to Hawthorn, where I had been for 14 years with different roles along the way. I had 14 years with one coach (Alastair Clarkson). So going anywhere else was always going to be different. You had the Do Better report, and then Bucks (Nathan Buckley) was out of contract (as coach) and then there were the salary cap issues.
GLENN McFARLANE: At times did you shake your head and think what the hell have I got myself involved in here?
GW: (laughs) Just about every day when I drove here for a while. I must say, there were a lot of good people here doing a lot of good work before me and they’d come off a very good 2018-2020 so working through the issues re: the salary cap was important.
MM: What had to be fixed first?
GW: Early on, it was just trying to get an understanding of what everyone was doing. Especially coming out of Covid, we were all a little bit hamstrung with money. So you were just sort of trying to work out who’s doing what, even things like the way your doctors are structured compared to Hawthorn, or the physios, or the high performance and coaching teams. Obviously, there had been a lot transpiring in the trade period of 2020. There had been two or three players (Adam Treloar, Jaidyn Stephenson and Tom Phillips) leave at the end of that period, and working out where it actually sat from there, took a while to filter through. It wasn’t a matter of looking back. It was like ‘What are we going to do to fix things?’
THE FLY FACTOR
MM: What did you see in the appointment of Craig McRae that others probably didn’t have?
GW: We interviewed a number of potential coaches … Vossy and Adam Kingsley and Jaymie Graham. ‘Fly’ (McRae) was the last one of that group we interviewed. We thought there were some good candidates. Then Fly came in and was fantastic. We had a good group (interviewing the candidates). Luke Ball was outstanding through that, and Peter Murphy, Mark Anderson and Paul Licuria. For us, he (McRae) was the right fit for what we needed, that real development background, that real communicator, and someone who was about people. The other guys who just missed out were good.
GM: How hard did you go at Clarko and Ross Lyon?
GW: We didn’t rule anyone out. I think Ross ruled himself out, and said he hadn’t spoken to us. We felt it was a job for a first time coach. I spoke to Clarko’s management about whether he wanted to talk to us, but he thought it wasn’t the right time for him.
MM: Go back 34 years when you first came to Collingwood as a player, and you saw a bloke called Leigh Matthews transform a club. What you know of Leigh and what you now know of Craig, are there any similarities, considering he has been coached by Leigh as well?
GW: We’ve all got our Leigh-isms, and Fly and Leppa are a bit the same. Fly is a bit different. He’s a modern-day coach. He’s not a young man. He‘s 49. So it’s taken 16 or 17 years to get an opportunity. But he was in no hurry either, which I think was a credit to him. He wanted to be the best development coach he could be, then the best assistant coach. My understanding is he had opportunities to put his hat in the ring, but didn’t think it was the right time for him, family-wise and professionally. He’s a real positive coach rather than a negative one. There’s a carrot and the stick, but there is not much stick with him.
IS THE GAME STYLE SUSTAINABLE?
MM: You won 11 games by under two goals last year. What happens in the same scenario this year, if those 11 games don’t go your way? Will we see a change, as opposition clubs have had 12 months to look at Collingwood playing the new way?
GW: The game changes every month really. We have changed what we do a little, and different personnel change things up. I thought last year we were far more direct, less possession, go-forward mentally. I don’t think you will see much change with that. That will be us. But we would like to think we are a good pressure team that was able to get enough pressure on opposition and hopefully win the ball back when we haven’t got it.
GM: The narrative was that Collingwood got lucky in 2022. Does that talk frustrate you?
GW: At times last year no doubt we had some luck, but at times it was probably a little bit closer because the opposition had a bit of luck. We kept a few in it at times, but then we fought back from places where people weren’t expecting us to. When we were behind, we never thought we were out of it, when we were in front, we seemed to be able to run it down to being close.
MM: What was more gut wrenching the Geelong qualifying final loss or the Sydney preliminary final loss?
GW: I suppose the finality of the prelim where you lose by point, and you’re done. (After) the Geelong game, you get to fight another day. Geelong would have thought they would have deserved to win, and they did. But we had our chances, we just couldn’t quite nail them. So maybe the prelim was more gut wrenching.
JORDY STAYS
MM: Did you think for any moment in time that you were going to lose Jordan De Goey?
GW: Yep.
MM: Who to?
GW: St Kilda.
MM: Why were you so worried?
GW: He was a free agent, so he had the right to explore and do what he liked. And we had had a couple of issues in the previous 12 months, I think openly without Fly being here, he may have looked to do something else. He has a great relationship with Fly, but he also has a great relationship with a lot of his teammates – (Jeremy) Howe, (Scott) Pendlebury, Tay (Adams), and Brayden Maynard. They have helped him on the journey and love him. He has had a lot of support here and he knows that. He is a much loved teammate. But we had had a pretty solid 12 months and we were able to get through. It was really important that we kept him and really important that he wanted to stay.
MM: Is it fair to say that he stayed on the club’s terms?
GW: Some people might think we got him cheap, but I don’t think he is underpaid.
MM: A lot has been said about behavioural clauses in his contract. Is that right?
GW: We had spoken about some things. It was important he was a part of what we wanted going forward, I don’t know that you would say it was a behavioural clause, but it was around we wanted him to be a part of what we are doing going forward, but we also wanted him to buy into that.
MM: OK, he rings you and says he wants to Bali in the mid-year break? Do you let him go?
GW: Yeah. He went to Bali at the end of the year. We can’t put handcuffs on players. People think we have got access to them 24 hours a day. (But) he is a grown man and he should be able to do, within reason, what he wants on his leave.
GM: Where were you when he told you he was staying?
GW: We met with him and his manager on the Thursday night, with free agency starting about to start on the Friday. Then we met again, and had a good long conversation about where it was sitting. Leaving that meeting I wasn’t sure where we were. I got a call later that night from Ryan Vague, his manager, saying he was staying. Myself, Fly, Paul Licuria and Derek Hine were having a bite to eat preparing for the free agency, and we got a quick bottle of wine out (to celebrate).
MM: Surely it was champagne. Where does he play his best footy?
GW: Our guys use him really well. I don’t know whether he is a full-time mid. He is getting better with his endurance. Last week he had 30-odd (disposals) but he still played a bit of that half forward role and we know he can kick goals. He is such a powerful player. He has a lot of strings to his bow.
GM: He looks fitter this preseason. Has he got another level to go to?
GW: That will come with maturity. He is learning himself on what it takes. He is in a really good place mentally. He is happy and enjoying his footy.
JACK’S DRUG BAN
MM: Everyone makes mistakes and Jack Ginnivan has made one. How is he now?
GW: He has just come back from the Northern Territory, he went up there to Tennant Creek, and did some work, which I think was great for him. I think he is in a good space. We learnt a little bit watching others, watching the Bulldogs (with Bailey Smith) last year. If it has happened, it has happened, and you have to own it. But you have to remember he is just 20, and he has made a mistake, and he owned it. As an AFL or AFLW player, you have got responsibilities. Also, illicit drugs are illegal, so you can’t be a part of it. I know we have a high standard to adhere to. We have to be better than that, and it is not acceptable. He has let himself down and his teammates down. He has let the sponsors down and he has let the whole club down. But that’s a lot for a 20-year-old to carry.
MM: Did you have to realign or readdress your programs for education or support for Jack and the rest of the playing group?
GW: Jack will do some extra education, but the group gets a lot of support and education through the (AFL) PA or through us. The players should be applauded for signing up to something voluntary around the overall health and wellbeing of the cohort. They are signing up to hair testing and are randomly tested for illicit drugs outside of WADA. If they took an illicit drug and are caught on match day with an illicit drug in their system, they are getting two or four years as it is now. In the off-season, they are trying to help the cohort, someone in that group of players who might have a problem. But it is an illegal drug and they shouldn’t be doing that. They are a part of society. People in society who are doing drugs. We are just hoping our players are smart and steer clear of that. But we are crazy as an industry if we think it doesn’t happen.
GM: Jack carried a lot last year … He also spoke of his own mental health battle. Do you expect him to come straight back in?
GW: He did carry a lot, some of it he brought on himself. He has been open about (his mental health challenges), but that’s for him to talk about. He is 20 now. He was 19 last year. He has been really open about wanting to enjoy being a young man, and having a good time, and having some fun and playing good footy. But I think he has learnt a lot over the past 12 months. He has got a $5000 suspended fine, but he is going to miss some games, and that’s going to cost him a lot of money. That’s a five figure loss to him, I would have thought. Hopefully he gets back in quickly, but that’s going to depend on how we are going and who’s playing his spot. He is a really high quality player … I am sure he will be pushing himself early.
MM: Is mental health a massive issue in elite sport, particularly in our game.
GW: Absolutely. We have got a lot of different services through the (AFL) PA that we can access for people who are struggling. Jacqui Louder is our psychologist here. A lot of our players talk glowingly about her and the role that she plays for their performance psychology but also other parts of their life. But there are also a lot of mental health issues in society. I’m not trying to make excuses for players, but they are under a lot of pressure with social media and media in general. It is instantaneous. In years gone by, when we played Mick, you might read the paper on Monday, but you didn’t really hear anything about it on a Saturday night. These guys have got it on their phones even before they get back to their phones.
NEW SKIPPER
MM: Darcy Moore is a mature, lateral and considered thinker. What are his main strengths as a leader?
GW: The Craig Bellamy rule of leadership is ‘Play well on Sunday’, and Darcy is a very good player first up. He is smart, considered, he understands the game, but understands the bigger picture too. It is a big club and you are a spokesperson, he is going to lead from the front. He is very socially aware. I know he was a massive leader in terms of the player response to the Do Better report, him … and is still involved in the recommendations. He is the real article in relation to modern leaders in diversity, he has great empathy for people. But he knows the process we ran, there are some things we need to work on in his leadership.
MM: What are they?
GW: I wouldn’t want to go into that. But with any leader, you are never the finished article and he has some stuff to do that he is working with our leadership guys on.
THE GRUNDY TRADE
GM: Was the decision to trade Brodie Grundy a salary cap issue first and foremost?
GW: As much as anything, it was the (salary) cap. We were pretty open with Brodie and his management. In the end, the decision is not a short term one, it is a medium to long term one for us. What had happened in the past had happened and we had to deal on what was going to happen going forward.
MM: Philosophically, do you believe in long-term contracts?
GW: You have to in the modern game because if you don’t, you don’t keep Darcy Moore or you don’t keep Jordy. If you don’t, you are not in the game.
MM: Was there any bitterness in the final decision?
GW: Certainly not on my part, and I don’t believe on Brodie’s. He felt a bit broken-hearted that he was leaving and thought he would be here forever. But that’s business and things change. Brodie and myself and Robbie D’Orazio (Grundy’s manager) and Fly got together at Robbie’s house and said we are doing it. We shake hands and we wish each other well and we move on.
GM: Has the club got enough ruck stocks to counter the loss of Grundy?
GW: We’ve been really happy with Coxy and Darcy (Cameron) over the summer. We feel Aiden Begg is coming through as a young ruck, and we have just brought in Oscar Steene. They do get injured a lot, the rucks. Leigh Matthews used to say that you need six of them, and we have got four. In the final last year, (Nathan) Kreuger went in and played a role. We have (Billy) Frampton if we need to go to that, and Dan McStay can ruck as well.
LOSING HENRY
GM: Ollie Henry wanted a trade to Geelong, but the club wanted to keep him. What was the rationale behind letting him at the 11th hour?
GW: They wrapped Tom (Mitchell) up in it. Cooper Stephens went to Hawthorn, and they wrapped that into it, which made it a bit more palatable. But we still felt like we got unders for Ollie. We felt he was an under 20 pick and we ended up with 25 or something like that. I didn’t think it would go through. It must have been 10 to 7 for a 7.30 finish. I thought ‘this isn’t going to go through’. I thought we would be talking him into staying because I couldn’t see how he was going to get through to Geelong through the draft, or a preseason draft. I know a couple of clubs would have selected him before Geelong.
GM: Did you know he wanted to leave a few months out?
GW: Not so much a few months out. But when you can’t get a contract done, it makes it hard. We knew the contract stuff had stalled. When it stalls you think something is going on.
THE SALARY CAP
MM: Is the salary cap mess fixed now?
GW: Yeah, pretty much. I feel like we are in a good spot going forward and that has taken a couple of years to get to a good spot.
MM: On the back of that, can we expect Collingwood to have a fair crack at free agency as early as the next 12 months?
GW: Yeah, we will be active.
MM: How active? And are there any big names you are chasing?
GW: Not so much a big name. But we will be really active, whether that be free agency or trade.
GM: Do you feel as if the salary cap handcuffs are off now?
GW: We have tried to be really smart about how we have spent our money, but also what we are giving up to get players. (In 2021) we had no picks because we had Nick (Daicos) coming in. We could have gone into deficit for picks to get Nick through the doors, but we are able to get through that, and bring in (Patrick) Lipinski and Kreuger. We didn’t feel like we paid overs money-wise and we didn’t think we paid overs with what we gave up in trade value. That’s what we did last year. Dan (McStay) comes in as a free agent, Bobby (Hill) is a future second, Billy (Frampton) is a future third, and Tom (Mitchell) was a couple of third round picks. We didn’t feel like we gave up a massive amount. But we were able to maintain pretty much what we wanted with our own players, we kept Jordy (De Goey), signed Darcy (Moore) early in the year, so we were able to keep the majority of the group together.
THE RECRUITS
MM: What has Tom Mitchell brought to the group?
GW: He is extremely hard working, diligent and professional. Tom is a natural contested ball player. That’s why we looked at him last year when he became potentially available or that Hawthorn were looking to move him. He was keen to talk to us, we were keen to talk to him. But it had to work financially. We had a fair bit going on. He was the last of those four players coming in. We had commitments with the other guys (McStay, Hill and Frampton) and if we couldn’t do it, we couldn’t do it.
GM: Bobby Hill?
GW: We tried to get him the year before, but it certainly a lot easier when he is out of contract. He is improving his endurance all the time. We feel he is going to have the ability to play other roles than just half forward. He is exciting, his ability to chase down, tackle and he is a good user of the footy, he can mark the ball OK for his size.
GM: How long had the club been chasing Dan McStay?
GW: We felt we would fit our system, he is not super quick, but he works hard. We feel he will get more looks at it with us than he probably would have with (Brisbane). He played a pretty sacrificial role with them, but then was able to go in and ruck, like he did in the finals. I’m not talking for Brisbane, but I think there was the question of whether they put enough on the table for him to be able to say ‘I’m going to do it’, so you leave the door open a bit.
MM: Jordan Roughead retires and you bring in Billy Frampton. Was that a needs basis to get a lockdown defender to support Howe and Moore?
GW: Yeah, and his versatility. He has played ruck and he has played forward. Nathan Murphy jumped up last year and had a fantastic season. He came in and we hardly lost a game after he came into the team. He plays above his height. It is going to be interesting to see where that lands in the next month, or the next six weeks, whether Billy is able to grab a spot there, or do we play Murph? That’s really for the coaches.
SWITCHING THE LINES
MM: The assistant coaches have changed in terms of their change within the structure of their lines. On the back of last year’s success, some would say why?
GW: That was Fly’s decision to change things up, he likes the idea of change. The only one who stayed the same was Scott Selwood. Leppa is doing forwards, Bolts is doing backs, and Skip has gone into the stoppage role. Fly wanted to have different eyes on different areas. Leppa is still massively involved in our defensive structure. Bolts is heavily involved in what we are doing offensively, but he is still our coaching director as well.
THE KIDS
MM: You’ve always had an eye for the future when it comes to talent. Which of the young players will make inroads this year?
GW: Reef (McInnes) or Ed Allan. Ed is 195cm and he has elite endurance and leg speed, he will play wing or mid. He has a lot of upside. Reef has all the attributes but he is improving his endurance.
GM: The fans enjoyed last year like almost no other year besides a premiership season, did the players feed off that?
GW: We just got over 100,000 members last year and we would love to break through that barrier again. When you have 90,000 people at the MCG, the Collingwood army is so loud, we had a lot of close finishes that brought that out. We are tracking really well at the moment.
MM: What are your expectations? Can you win the flag?
GW: You want to make finals absolutely. I think we are a good enough team to be in the finals and then you want to qualify, but you have to go through a process. It is hard to win every week. It is such an even comp. We haven’t got that far down the track. I just want to call out all the Collingwood supporters who have been brilliant for us and that’s not lost on us as a club and football department.
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