Avengers: Endgame directors on fat Thor and Iron Man’s Oscar hopes
Avengers: Endgame directors Joe and Anthony Russo reflect on making the biggest movie of all time, marvel at Chris Hemsworth’s transformation into fat Thor and explain why Robert Downey Jr deserves and Oscar.
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Avengers: Endgame directors Joe and Anthony Russo are having a much better time talking about their record-breaking superhero epic now than they were when it was released in cinemas nearly four months ago.
As they jetted around the world in April with various combinations of the vast A-list cast, they were almost hilariously tight-lipped about the events of the 22nd entry into the hugely successful Marvel Cinematic Universe and the one that promised to tie up the threads of the previous movies into one epic conclusion.
They were also dealing with being among the most hated men on the planet by the super fans, having killed off beloved heroes from Spider-Man to Doctor Strange and Black Panther at the cliffhanger ending of Avengers: Infinity War. And thanks to unprecedented script secrecy methods, they were two of the very small group who knew which heroes would be coming back (and how) and which ones would be departing for good.
“It’s a huge relief for us,” says Anthony Russo ahead of the release of this week’s home entertainment release of Endgame.
“It’s so hard to not be able to converse with people about the film. We had to carry that responsibility for so long — for years — to finally get to the point where everyone who wants to see it has seen it and we can speak freely about the movie is really exciting for Joe and I.”
The brothers also have added reason to smile: in addition to earning rave reviews for its enormous action set pieces and emotionally satisfying finale, Endgame last month ended James Cameron’s fantasy epic Avatar’s reign as the highest grossing film of all time, with an eye watering box office tally of $4.1 billion.
“That was very surreal,” admits Joe Russo.
“I mean you can never expect that something like that is going to happen so the fact that is did was really shocking to us. We feel thrilled that the movie has been embraced by the fans and that the audience for this movie has been expanded and is reaching more new people.”
That level of secrecy came with its own challenges, however. With just one complete copy of the script existing on a single iPad, the actors were only allowed to read their own scenes, leading to some feeling “disconnected” from the film and uncertain of their parts in the whole. Dave Bautista, who plays Drax, recently told Screen he had no idea whether he was even going to be in Endgame, saying: “I was kept in the dark a lot so I never really had a full image in my head of what this project was”. Similarly Tom Holland, who plays Spider-Man said “it didn’t feel much like making a movie”.
Anthony concedes that the clandestine approach could have been a disaster and at times made their jobs more difficult, but it worked because of the level of trust built up over the 11-year journey of the MCU. And with some actors having developed reputations for letting secrets slip, the Russos decided that what they didn’t know couldn’t hurt them.
“Because of the nature of the material it’s very hard to keep secrets so the easiest way to keep a secret is to not tell your secret,” Anthony says.
“So we tried to keep the pressure off the actors by only giving them what they absolutely needed to know to perform their scene.
“It does create some extra work on set in that Joe and I might have to talk a little more with the actors than we would have had they seen a full script, but that added level of difficulty is well worth it for the upside of being able to open a movie that is going to be a complete surprise to audiences.”
With such a passionate fan base, it’s unsurprising that the Blu-ray and digital release for Endgame is packed with extras, including commentaries, gag reel and featurettes on characters leaving the MCU such as Robert Downey Jr’s Iron Man and Chris Evans’ Captain America. There’s also a spotlight on “Bro Thor”, explaining the rationale behind one of Endgame’s highlights when Chris Hemsworth’s normally buff God Of Thunder had gone to seed as a burnt-out, traumatised alcoholic.
Initially played for laughs with the Aussie hunk’s signature abs hidden behind a huge fake gut, the Russos say they marvelled at Hemsworth’s ability to convey the pain and suffering behind the jokes, pointing out that Thor had been so broken and beaten down by the events of Infinity War that humour was the only path forward. They have since directed Hemsworth in the coming Netflix thriller Dhaka and say he’s one of the most versatile and talented actors around.
“Joe and I have always loved really complicated tones and it takes a very talented actor to pull off that kind of tonal mash-up,” Anthony says.
“You are dealing with something on an almost absurd level while at the same time you are dealing with it on a very deeply tragic emotional level. The character is fluctuating between those two poles.”
But, with Hemsworth also featuring prominently in the gag reel, Joe agrees that it’s a lineball call between the Aussie and Chris “Star-Lord” Pratt as to who can be the biggest clown on set.
“That’s a really good question,” says Joe with a laugh.
“They are both very funny and I have to be honest with you, most of the cast is. Everybody brings a nice energy to set but in terms of those two, I don’t know who would win. It would be a toss-up. They have a rivalry going the same way their characters do on screen as to who’s funnier on set.”
And with Thor and Star-Lord thrown together at the end of the Endgame, seemingly about to head in to space, both Russos would love to see more of them together in the next Guardians Of the Galaxy chapter.
“I would love to see how those two characters worked together going forward,” says Joe. “Thor’s experiences have left him in a very similar place to many of those Guardians characters. There is a strong affinity he has to those characters — that family of vagabonds — and there is probably some very good story to tell there. I don’t know what is but I hope that James Gunn or somebody else can see it.”
Having swept all before it at the box office and basked in the adulation of fans, there’s just one more frontier left for Endgame: awards season. While superhero films and the MCU have traditionally been snubbed when it comes to handing out statues, Black Panther broke through last year with a Best Picture Oscar nomination, hinting that attitudes are possibly softening to what has been the dominant genre of the new century.
While the Russos say they don’t make movies for either box office records or accolades, they would like to see Robert Downey Jr at least nominated for his farewell to the universe he kicked off with the original Iron Man in 2008.
“There was a really famous comment about Downey early in his career when Robert Altman called him the finest actor of his generation and that still feels true today,” says Anthony. “That performance that he gave in Endgame moved people around the world and at the very least Joe and I hope that he is recognised for the special performance that it was.”
And of all the bittersweet farewells in Endgame, with Evans bowing out as Captain America and Scarlett Johansson’s Black Widow ending her journey (although she’s now shooting a prequel), the Russos admit that Downey’s billionaire philanthropist playboy giving his life to save the universe had a special resonance.
“Tony Stark having the longest arc in the MCU and being there at the very beginning and all the way through Infinity War, there was something very satisfying about that,” says Anthony. “Joe and I, since working with Robert on Civil War became very close collaborators with him and he has been a tremendous partner to us in the process of making these movies. And to bring his character full circle to his ‘I am Iron Man’ moment was a really emotional experience for us and Robert.”
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While the Russos can see themselves returning to the MCU down the track some time, for now they are revelling in not having to worry about what comes next in the vast interconnected universe that shows no sign of slowing down as it enters Phase 4.
“That’s a nice place to be where we can finally detach ourselves from the story,” says Anthony.
“I think that Joe and I realised that a lot of times when we were making these movies, there is always people trying to guess where the story is going and what’s going to happen. I think the one thing we noticed time and time again is that there are so many places you can go with these stories and so many different possibilities that nobody actually ends up guessing where we are going and so our version of the next chapter is always different from what anyone was expecting.
“I think the same is going to be true going forward for the MCU — whatever I can sit here and think about, there is somebody else who is actually charged with that who is thinking about something else. The exciting thing for me is that I don’t know what is coming next in the MCU, but I certainly can’t wait to see.”
Avengers: Endgame is out now on the Foxtel Store and on DVD/Blu-ray, 4KHD and digital
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