Michael Cheika: The full Q&A with the Wallabies coach
WALLABIES coach Michael Cheika talks about the state of Australian rugby, the World Cup, his future, the importance of consistency, engineering a legacy and the status of star players like Israel Folau, Bernard Foley, Michael Hooper and David Pocock.
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WALLABIES coach Michael Cheika talks about the state of Australian rugby, the national team set-up, relations with the state franchises, the World Cup, his future, the importance of consistency, engineering a legacy and the status of star players like Israel Folau, Bernard Foley, Michael Hooper and David Pocock.
Q: The Wallabies coaching staff have been out at the trainings of the Super Rugby franchises, seemingly with their sleeves rolled up and getting involved. Can you explain the hows and whys? Wallabies coaches used to attend training but only observed.
A: I don’t think there is any upside to just observing. That’s what they’ve done in the past, just gone and stood on the sideline. That was just lip-service really, to say we are there.
The coaches came in here several times last year and we set up some ideals around what we’d like to do. We knew it wouldn’t be easy, it’s new territory and everyone is a bit conscious about not getting in anybody’s way and doing the right thing. But so far it’s been really good. It is about building the relationship I suppose. We are just being as genuine as we can.
We have had meetings with all the players with all the coaches — us and their state coaches — all in the same room, so the player sees we are on the same page together. Same with the S & C coaches, together. We are only missing the Brumbies, we go there next week.
We will do that probably twice a year.
Then part two is the coaches going to the state trainings and being useful, in whatever way they can.
I have seen a real desire from the state teams to engage and be more involved, and see us as a possibility to help.
Q: Do you suggest ways for them to play or how does that work?
A: Tactically? No, not tactical. We are talking about stuff a player is working on individually, preparations, post-training, skill elements we’d like to get guys to improve on more, just a bunch of things.
Players are our No.1 asset, so for them to feel like they are being managed correctly or directed correctly over a 12-month period, with continuity, makes them feel good as well. That’s a gain, too, for them to feel like we have our act together and know what we’re doing.
Q: Last year a lack of fitness was identified as a major problem in the June series ...
A: We were outspoken about it, yes ...
Q: Will this year will be different and you’ll be better prepared for when Ireland arrive?
A: That’s definitely the plan. Also with the two lads (Nathan Grey and Stephen Larkham) here now full-time, we are not coming into June window with one week’s preparation. Because as many times as you have meetings as coaches (in the past), they’re still thinking about Brumbies or Waratahs. Now there is the four of us here, with another one to join us soon (a forwards coach), so we will be ready completely for that process.
Q: That’s your plans but players being physically ready is a whole other thing, right?
A: Sure and the No.1 thing for that is the fitness element, and then some of the core skills. Some of the core skills pre-training and post-training, they are some of the things we have been trying to influence.
Q: Are Australian players fitter this year?
A: If I looked at the teams and their efforts in round one this year compared to round one last year, I saw already a significant lift. And the numbers are showing it to us as well, the training numbers, everything.
Q: Will they be at the fitness levels you want in the first week of June?
A: I think so. We’ll have to wait and see but from where we are now compared to last year, I think we are well ahead.
Q: Do you ask coaches to play people in certain spots?
A: Positions? No, no, no. The state coaches make those calls and we would, if anything, just provide clarity for a player that if they’re playing a different position in Super Rugby than they have for the Wallabies, then that won’t count against them.
Q: Is this system centralisation by stealth?
A: It’s collaboration, and it’s based on relationships. We do have good relationships now, and I have always had that with the coaches I think.
Now it is to make that normal, so it is not character dependant. So when the next coach comes in, he knows that’s the way it is done. And the state teams have had this happening and it’s not just “if one person goes, everything changes and it all stops”.
So part of canvassing for people in your team is you have to be able to do that, for fitness staff, for everyone.
Part of your skill set has to be an ability to collaborate with others because that’s how we operate here.
We have talked about it a lot and we have tried to put in the platforms by building relationships, and last year at the end of the year when we all got together here, that was the start of us saying “it’s time to do something”.
Q: Considering we are in countdown mode to the World Cup, how important is this three-Test series against Ireland? They’re obviously a very good team and it’s fair to say your record in June hasn’t been fantastic.
A: You have seen our trajectory the last two years: slow, then we get going and then we sort of peter towards the end. There is a real clear gauge for what we have to do.
We have to be more consistent at a higher level. To start off at a higher level and then keep that trajectory going, and then improve on it again the year after.
You have to expect to be at your best, and we are in charge of doing that. We haven’t been at our best in the June series, the last two. The goal of what we are doing is to start off with the expectation that we are going to be at our best come June.
Q: It’s clear now that the Wallabies doing well is important for the overall health of Australian rugby? Do you feel that?
A: No doubt. It carries the feeling about the code, for sure. We are the national team, so of course it does.
Q: Did you get a sense of just how deflating that 3-0 series loss to England was in 2016? Coming off the high of the World Cup, everyone feeling good about rugby and then it was a whitewash and the air went right out of the game.
A: Of course. But I have always been very clear about what we needed to do since the World Cup to now. We haven’t just talked about it, we have done a full refit of the team. There are a lot of debutants who have come through — 25/26 and probably 20 of them are still in and around the team.
We made a huge change. With the desire to get some experience under our belt to get into this year.
Do we keep doing that going forward? No.
But I think we have been building as well, with not just a view to these games coming up but also with a view to the longer term, and being consistent in the longer term. What do we need to do to leave a legacy of consistent high-level competition in our teams, which will be good for the health of the game and the (public) feeling about the game as well.
Q: There was steady progress made after the bad Sydney result last year. You beat New Zealand a few months later. But did that heavy Scotland loss in the last game of the Spring Tour take all the shine off the year?
A: Shine off, yes, but good lessons learned in the build-up to that week. In what we can do better and what we have to do to stay consistent, right up to the last 10 minutes of the English game and into the Scotland game. Staying in control and being in control of our own destiny. And that would be something we will be really clear about. A lot of what happened in that seven or eight days has been a good driver of what we need to be going forward.
Because I think we had a really good trajectory leading up to time, and we just lost ourselves a bit of control there. That shows where we are at and we will be much better at that this year.
Q: Was it anything in specific that went wrong in the build-up?
A: It was just general wear and tear. When you get that intensity going, like we had to do — during that period between Super Rugby and August, we trained hard because we had to get up to that fitness level. The intensity, the sacrifices, you have to be prepared to make the sacrifices for longer and we will be this year, because of the lessons we learned at the end of last year.
Q: Did Scotland beating England add context to that result, in your mind? It showed again the Scots are an underrated side.
A: Everyone likes to have opinions about how things should roll but I know that against every side from 1-10, even 1-15, every day you have to be on your money. And if you’re not, it’s going to be a struggle. And that’s for everyone.
We saw Japan and France. Fiji are very, very competitive. Wales on their day, fantastic, beat Scotland, almost beat England. It’s all about consistency. Anyone can beat anyone on their day. So if you don’t turn up, you can be in trouble.
That’s where our improvement is going to be directed towards, about consistency. Obviously we can play at that level, we have shown that. We just have to do it all the time.
Q: You spoke about a rebuilding process towards the next World Cup. Did the Wallaby performances in Dunedin and in Brisbane make you feel like “yes, we are on the right track”.
A: I am a strong believer in the team and the players in the team. Even from halftime in the first game against New Zealand, to be honest.
The work we did in between June and August was really tough and hard, and I was really proud of the guys that at halftime of that (Sydney) game we were able to turn it around, because it was a real crossroads there you know?
I think all those games showed a mentality and self-belief, but you need to have that attitude all the time.
Q: Are there any goals you have written down for this season?
A: Playing Test matches, you have to want to win every game. Not have to, want to. Because of that link to the health of the game. We know it is a great honour to be able to influence that and you have to take it on.
Q: You are off contract after the World Cup next year. What are your plans for the future?
A: The way I see it is like this: we came second in the last one and you have got to improve.
So there is only winning the World Cup, otherwise it is probably somebody else’s opportunity to do it.
What I would like to do in the interim is leave enough legacy in there so that that person has the best possible chance to do it as well.
Everything I have tried to do in here has been with a view to that. To have skin in this, for now and for longer.
That’s probably not the normal answer. People love to hedge their bets because they want their next contract.
But I want Australian rugby to be consistently at that level and we have had to make changes to get to that point.
It is not something you can decide you are going to do tomorrow. You have to keep chipping at it.
Because I want to be up in the stand in the future, watching Australia play and watching them kill it and play well. I think people think that’s garbage sometimes, that I say that. But that’s genuine.
So, in a World Cup, that’s a good chance to leave and to leave behind the legacy that you’ve built in the interim.
That’s the target. You have to do better. And doing better is coming first.
Q: You have been grooming Stephen Larkham as your successor — do you think he is still the guy to follow you?
A: It is obviously not my decision, we have to make that clear No.1 — but that’s what I like, I like the idea of having that type of succession. As long as we are doing a good job, as a group.
Stephen has come on in leaps and bounds, even just in the time he’s only been in this role and understanding how to integrate and affect and understand, and listen.
He still has a way to go, and he knows that. One great thing with him is he is really self-aware, he knows what he needs to do to become better and better and better and take the team forward.
Q: How is your relationship with the new boss?
A: It’s very comfortable. She feels comfortable enough to include me in a lot of stuff, and I feel very comfortable in asking her what we need to do, in a different direction. And including her in a lot of our stuff, too.
I don’t know how long it has been now but I have been energised by her arrival.
Q: There are a fair few big names coming off contract this year. Izzy Folau would be a big plank of the side to lose ahead of the World Cup. How much confidence do you have there?
A: We aren’t planning on losing him, for starters. We have prepared well for Israel, Bernard Foley and Michael Hooper, the captain of the team. There are a few other interesting contracts coming up too, around this time, with some of the younger fellas as well.
This block of them, I have felt really certain about what we need to do, because of the groundwork we have laid over the last couple of years: who we need to keep here long-term, who we need to inspire to do better and incentivise to do better.
Q: What was your thinking behind approving the much talked-about David Pocock sabbatical? Was it because you saw his ability to influence a World Cup campaign in 2015 and thought we have to do whatever we can to make sure he is in Japan in 2019?
A: It was a combination of factors. One of them might sound a bit strange.
Definitely one was that influence, and I think we will get greater influence out of him going forward. And the ability then to have room to bring other blokes through. Sometimes playing without people — like we played without Israel at the end of last year — it makes other people step up and come to the fore.
You can give guys not only an opportunity but time in the saddle and experience, and then if you can time that momentum so everyone is coming back and moving forward together at the right time, that’s ideal.
It is a bit risky at the time, when you are making a decision like that, but I believe it will come back to pay us back.
Q: With Quade Cooper’s situation, he’s being paid to play club footy. Do you think there should be a system to allow players to move between Super franchises if they’re not being used?
A: The opportunity for deals is there, it is about somebody wanting to make them, to come forward and say “I want this guy”. And we are more than comfortable to negotiate that. There is no issue.
Q: Is there anything like that happening with Quade?
A: Not at this point, no. I think he is very committed to proving people wrong and getting back into the Queensland side through club footy. That’s been a time-honoured tradition that we have had: club footy into state footy and beyond. It would be a great story if he does it.
Q: Phil Kearns got picked for the Wallabies from reserve grade. Will you be getting your hands on game tapes from Souths to keep an eye on Quade’s club form?
A: For sure, I will be watching him for sure. I am looking forward to the season starting. It starts too bloody late, it starts after Easter, all those club comps. I would to see him start playing footy now.
In speaking to him he is very committed to making it back that way, and proving himself.