Ivan Cleary, Phil Gould haven’t spoken since frosty phone call, TV comments

Days after his extraordinary grand final feat, Ivan Cleary has opened up on some very private topics, including his rift with Phil Gould.

Panthers coach Ivan Cleary has opened up about battling depression, his relationship with star player son Nathan and how he turned Penrith into a victory machine in a no-holds-barred interview, just days after steering his team to their fourth consecutive NRL Grand Final win.

Ivan has also lifted the lid on his tense relationship with NRL great Phil “Gus” Gould, shared his thoughts on player salaries and revealed the club that is his biggest inspiration – surprisingly, considering last weekend’s result, Melbourne Storm – as he prepares to release a book, Not Everything Counts … But Everything Matters.

He even goes head-to-head with son Nathan in the book, each writing a chapter about the other – an extraordinarily frank conversation running today as an extract in The Sunday Telegraph.

Ivan, 53, has a reputation as a man who can be reserved and sparing with what he lets out, especially in public. But in an interview running alongside the Telegraph extract, he is frank about his struggles with mental health.

‘I was struggling big-time’ ... Panthers coach Ivan Cleary in 2019.

“I was struggling big-time,” Ivan says of his lowest ebb, when he returned to the Panthers in 2019 after being dismissed in 2015. His first season back was disastrous and he wondered if he should just “walk away”.

“I recall not wanting to get out of bed a couple of times in my career before that, so it was starting to dawn on me what I was experiencing … I actually needed help.”

Ivan urges other people, especially men, to be open and seek support if in trouble – and that can often start with a conversation.

“The thing about men is, we just don’t talk about depression,’’ he says. “You feel like you’re a failure if you do.”

‘It’s made our relationship stronger’ ... Nathan and Ivan Cleary celebrate after the Panthers won the 2024 NRL Grand Final match against the Melbourne Storm.

Writing in an extract from Not Everything Counts … But Everything Matters, Nathan reveals those dark times, when he saw his dad “with a blank face I’d never seen before”, were awful for both the team and the family; but somehow there was positive growth.

“It’s made our relationship stronger. I didn’t know about his depression then, and I probably don’t know all there is to know about it now, but I’m proud of him for getting through it, and even prouder that he’s speaking out about it,” Nathan writes.

“I think it was this difficult time that drove Dad to create the culture that turned our club around. We realised our actions off the field were just as important as those on it.”

In the book, Ivan reveals how his troubles on returning to Penrith were made worse when club leader Gould, who had previously sacked him from the Panthers in 2015, undermined him with some comments on TV. Ivan confronted Gould in a phone call and Gould later left the club. The two haven’t spoken since.

Relationship soured ... Ivan Cleary and Phil Gould in 2015.

Much of the book, created with co-writer Andrew Webster and being published on October 16 by HarperCollins, is about how Ivan turned the Panthers into such a powerful team with a “winning culture” – modelled in part on the Storm and Manchester United – plus a vital relationship with the local community.

And it’s more than a footy book, featuring leadership lessons and insights that could be applied in many areas of business and life outside sport.

In today’s interview Ivan openly discusses the challenges and rewards of working with his own son, hoping his thoughts could be useful to any parent who helps out with their child’s sports team.

In the context of helping Nathan manage his contracts, he shares his belief that young players should beware the lure of money.

Four consecutive Grand Final wins ... Ivan Cleary relaxing at home last week after Penrith’s championship win. Picture: Tim Hunter.

“My advice to the parents and managers of young players is not to seek a big-money contract too soon,” Ivan writes in the extract.

“While these offers can be very tempting, in my view they aren’t always best for a player’s development. As soon as a player gets a certain amount of money, they feel pressure to live up to that number. They have to produce or they’ll consider themselves a failure.”

On the subject of pressure, Ivan salutes how Nathan has handled his high-profile relationship with “impressive” girlfriend, Matildas soccer star Mary Fowler. And he warns of the power of social media in young players’ lives, revealing that in 2019, Nathan had a “paralysing” fear of other people’s opinions.

Since then, the younger Cleary has found a strategy to block out vile criticism, “through conscious effort”.

An ‘impressive’ couple ... Nathan Cleary and Mary Fowler. Picture: Instagram @_nathancleary

“One of the most important things he did was to work out who his circle was, and to tell himself that their opinions were the only ones he respected,” Ivan writes. “If you weren’t in the circle, your opinion didn’t matter. That made sense to me: if you don’t take advice from someone, why take their criticism?”

The coach adds: “I’m not on social media, but I’m the same – the criticism he gets from mainstream media still stings me. I try to take his advice, though, and ignore it. His courage helps the rest of the family navigate a way through that noise. It’s pretty cool to see your kids mature and teach you such great lessons.”

And it’s not just his own kids making Ivan proud. As Nathan reveals elsewhere in the extract, he treats the whole team like they are his children – a sense of care shines clearly through the entire book.

More than just footy ... Ivan Cleary’s first book is published next week.

Not Everything Counts … But Everything Matters by Ivan Cleary with Andrew Webster, will be published by HarperCollins on October 16 and is available to pre-order now. Ivan will launch the book with a free in-conversation event at Penrith Rugby Leagues Club on October 16, 5:30pm. Get your free ticket here.

Originally published as Ivan Cleary, Phil Gould haven’t spoken since frosty phone call, TV comments