Podcast transcript: Ryan Watsford finds out friend is undercover cop

This is an edited transcript of a federal police interview between Ibrahim associate Ryan Watsford and an AFP agent. An undercover police officer’s name has been redacted due to a court suppression order.

This is an edited transcript of a federal police interview between Ibrahim associate Ryan Watsford and an AFP agent. An undercover police officer’s name has been redacted due to a court suppression order.

Warning: Graphic language.

AFP Agent: What can you tell me about your involvement in that matter?

Ryan Watsford: I never had that sort of money.

AA: Ryan, have you been involved in any meetings discussing the purchase of smuggled tobacco?

RW: No I have not. I smoke cigarettes, as you know

AA: Have you organised to assist in the payment of smuggled tobacco?

RW: Like, I have no money. I’m broke. You know that

AA: Okay. Ryan, I put it to you that you actually gave a male known as ******** — so on the 14th November 2016, okay, you met with this person called ******** at the Intercontinental Hotel at 33 Cross St, Sydney.

AA: Where you provided $50,000 to ******** for the purchase of tobacco.

RW: So I walked into the hotel with fifty grand on me … is there surveillance with that?

AA: So, no.

RW: Is there surveillance with that?

AA: Ryan, I’m asking the questions. What can you tell me about your involvement in that matter?

RW: No, mate. I’m telling you.

AA: I’ll put it to you at this point in time that when I refer to ********, I’m referring to an undercover police officer.

RW: An undercover police officer …

AA: Correct

RW … is ********?

AA: Correct. All this offending that we have evidence on you in a criminal syndicate. We have telephone intercepts, we have surveillance, we have undercover recordings, statements, BlackBerry messages. This is — I’m basically giving you the opportunity to tell your side of the story. So we’ve got an undercover officer saying that he received $50,000 from you in a tea tin … What can you tell me about that?

RW: Can I talk to my lawyer for a minute?

---------- INTERVIEW BREAK ----------

AA: So on the 14th November 2016 you provided a $50,000 deposit to a person you know as ********, and we’ve now explained that he is in fact an undercover police officer.

AA: What can you tell me about your involvement in that?

RW: It’s true.

AA: Okay. So tell me about what happened? I want to know everything that — so from when you first started discussing tobacco, all the way until the end when you received ---

RW: He sold them to me. He put it on to me.

AA: Okay. So tell me more about that?

RW: He gave me a carton of Davidoffs two years ago, white Davidoffs, as a present, and a bottle of scotch.

AA: And tell me what happened after that?

RW: We became mates. Started talking. I thought he was a nice guy. He’s obviously not.

AA: Tell me more about the $50,000? Whose money did that belong to?

RW: Honestly, that’s the truth. You know, I can’t — I can’t recall whose money it is, but it’s …

AA: So do you recall ---

RW: How long has he been an undercover police officer for?

AA: I can’t provide you with those details. Okay.

RW: And why was — why — why did he try and, um, ah, target me?

AA: Yeah, I can understand there’s a lot to process. I can’t answer those questions. Okay. What we’re here to talk about today is your involvement in these offences. Okay. Once we get through the interview I’ll best try and answer some of your questions.

RW: Mhmm

AA: Okay. So what was your involvement in organising — I mean, I’m basically trying to assess your involvement in this offending. What was your involvement in the lead up with the undercover officer that led you to organise for this 50,000 to go to him?

RW: He told me he needed it for a, um, deposit for the, ah, ah, cigarettes, um, that were already here. He said he already — he’d already brought them in or something. I — I don’t know. Something along those lines. And we’d be able to make a purchase of them in I thought either a week, whenever, when he was ready, et cetera.

AA: So when you say he brought them in, what do you mean by that?

RW: I’ve got no idea. I didn’t ask him. That’s the truth. I did not ask him. I didn’t ask him at all.

AA: Okay.

RW: I didn’t — I didn’t ask him. Ah, I feel like vomiting all over this table.

AA: Okay.

RW: You know, I thought he was a friend, you know what I mean. I thought he was a mate.