Sydney Siege inquest: Psychiatrist says hostages Marcia Mikhael and Selina­ Win Pe were ‘too dramatic’

TWO terrified Lindt Cafe hostages were “not helping” by becoming “increasingly dramatic” as they spoke with negotiators, a psychiatrist has claimed.

TWO terrified Lindt Cafe hostages were “not helping” by becoming “increasingly dramatic” as they spoke with negotiators, a psychiatrist yesterday told the inquest into the deadly terrorist attack.

Despite Marcia Mikhael and Selina­ Win Pe’s fears they would die after Man Haron Monis took 18 people hostage at gunpoint, the psychiatrist — whose identity has been suppressed — said the situation was “not as dramatic as they made out”.

He believed the two women, who were among those Monis used to speak to negotiators, had started to develop signs of so-called Stockholm syndrome.

“Their position was one of excessive and gratuitous alliance with the hostage taker … they certainly weren’t helping,” the psychiatrist said.

Selina­ Win Pe

Marcia Mikhael couldn’t understand why police wouldn’t give Man Monis a flag. Picture: Channel 7

The same psychiatrist had earlier told the inquiry he didn’t listen to escaped hostage Paolo Vassalo’s claims Monis was “not walking out” because he was “babbling”.

“I wouldn’t take his threat assessment­ seriously,” he said.

Mr Johnson’s family’s lawyer Dr Peggy Dwyer yesterday put it to the psychiatrist that Ms Mikhael and Ms Win Pe were becoming more upset in their calls on behalf of Monis, who had demanded an ­Islamic State flag.

“Increasingly dramatic,” the psychiatrist said. He said a listening device hidden in the cafe picked up conversations showing things were “not as dramatic as they made out”.

“I don’t know if they were posturing or they weren’t but they certainly weren’t helping,” he said.

The psychiatrist said the two women appeared to be developing “some empathy and positive feelings” for Monis.

The psychiatrist has described hostage Paolo Vassallo as ‘babbling’ after he escaped. Picture: Rohan Kelly

“They were very supportive of his (endeavours) to procure a flag,” the psychiatrist said. “They … were very denigrating of police efforts.”

Dr Dwyer argued Monis had been threatening hostages, putting his sawn-off shotgun to their heads, and, as his demands were not being met, the situation was becoming more stressed.

She asked the psychiatrist if he would accept that both Ms Mikhael and Ms Win Pe were highly intelligent women.

“I don’t know who they were,” the doctor said.

Marcia Mikhael was one of two hostages who spoke to negotiators. Picture: Getty Images

Ms Mikhael, a former Westpac project manager, told the inquest earlier this year she had “lost the plot” and swore at a negotiator because she was angry and frustrated.

“When you are under pressure and think you are going to die … I couldn’t see why it was so difficult to get a flag … you don’t say that to someone who has a gun pointed at their head,” she said. “(I felt like) I was a piece of nothing and I am going to die and no one cares.”

Ms Win Pe has also given evidence that she thought she was going to die.

The psychiatrist also said that it was the escape of six hostages at 2.03am on December 16 that prompted the murder of cafe manager Tori Johnson.

He said that, feeling defeat and humiliation, Monis spent the next 10 minutes steeling himself to kill the cafe manager — who he saw as the authority figure.

Both Ms Mikhael and Ms Win Pe were still in the cafe when police stormed it at 2.13am after Mr Johnson was shot dead.

Barrister Katrina Dawson died after being hit by fragments of police bullets.

The inquest continues.